volume: Two Epi UL-112s vs One Epi UL-410

[Tampabass]

I'm powering a single Epi UL-112 with a Little Mark II, and I've been thinking about adding a second UL-112 for those (occasional) situations where I'll need the additional power/volume to compete with drums/loud guitars.

But I've also been thinking about using a UL-410 instead of the two 112s, still powered with the LM2. Any thoughts on the differences in the two set-ups, in terms of volume/power/tone, etc?

(In the 410 scenario, I'd still keep my 112 for the "smaller" gigs).

[Tampabass]

anyone A/B'ed two 112s with one 410, of any make? I'm interested in thoughts on overall difference in volume/punch/tone, etc.

[RickenBoogie]

Generally, a 4x10 will be somewhat louder than a comparable 2x12.

[Nightlyraider]

If you are seriously considering the two, why not get the 212?

It sounds absolutely awesome and is very portable.

[JxBass]

If you're going to keep the UL112 for small-to-medium gigs then I'd go with the UL410 for large gigs. That way you'll always have a one cab solution. To me, the disadvantage of a 212 would be taking a box that is overkill (and overweight) to a majority of your gigs.

[MikeBass]

Originally Posted by JxBass

If you're going to keep the UL112 for small-to-medium gigs then I'd go with the UL410 for large gigs. That way you'll always have a one cab solution. To me, the disadvantage of a 212 would be taking a box that is overkill (and overweight) to a majority of your gigs.

+1

Maybe some speaker experts can chime in, but at Tom Bowlus's GTG a few years back, a UL112/UL110 combo smoked a pair of UL112's in shear volume.
So much so it was kinda stunning/shocking.
Again, don't know why, but that UL110 on top of that UL112 was INSANLY loud for such a small package.

That would be my vote to be honest.

PM Tom about it.
It was weird.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by MikeBass

+1

Maybe some speaker experts can chime in, but at Tom Bowlus's GTG a few years back, a UL112/UL110 combo smoked a pair of UL112's in shear volume.
So much so it was kinda stunning/shocking.
Again, don't know why, but that UL110 on top of that UL112 was INSANLY loud for such a small package.

That would be my vote to be honest.

PM Tom about it.
It was weird.

Hey Mike.. not that weird... in a small room, a more midrange oriented cab or stack is going to sound louder. The extra mid mids that 110 brought to the party is a good thing with that stack. On a gig, you would not really notice the volume difference (i.e., in a larger room), however, you would still notice the more punchy mids and a more even tone versus the more scooped tone of the 112UL x 2 tone... which is closer to the 410UL.

IMO and IME!

To the OP, +1 on the above couple posts... I MUCH prefer finding a small cab you like for small gigs, and a large cab you like for large gigs. I'm rarely happy with the 'compromise' of a modular rig (i.e., 2 x 210's or 2 x 112'). IMO there.

[JxBass]

Originally Posted by MikeBass

+1

Maybe some speaker experts can chime in, but at Tom Bowlus's GTG a few years back, a UL112/UL110 combo smoked a pair of UL112's in shear volume.
So much so it was kinda stunning/shocking.
Again, don't know why, but that UL110 on top of that UL112 was INSANLY loud for such a small package.

That would be my vote to be honest.

PM Tom about it.
It was weird.

Agreed. I've owned 2 x UL112s and 2 x UL110s and my favorite combination by far is the UL110/UL112.

I still go with my previous suggestion of using the 112 on small-to-medium gigs and a 410 on large gigs. As much as I liked the two-cab combinations above I, like a lot of folks, have migrated to the one cab per gig solution.

[B String]

It seems at the moment, I don't use either my UL112 or my UL110 much. However, any chance I get, I use the UL112/UL110stack. It sounds great with the LMII. Actually, it sounds good with most of my amps. Maybe louder than my UL310 but I haven't a/b'd the two next to each other. I think I just might have to do that this week. Hmmm..

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by MikeBass

+1

Maybe some speaker experts can chime in, but at Tom Bowlus's GTG a few years back, a UL112/UL110 combo smoked a pair of UL112's in shear volume.
So much so it was kinda stunning/shocking.
Again, don't know why, but that UL110 on top of that UL112 was INSANLY loud for such a small package.

That would be my vote to be honest.

PM Tom about it.
It was weird.

Yeah, that was amazing, and baffling to a certain extent. It wasn't even close! Tone-wise, the UL-112/UL-110 combo has been a long-time favorite of mine, as well.

[mr.hughes]

I run two UL112's or a UL310 with a Markbass LMK head and truly love them both. I've never been stuck for volume in any clubs/bars/weddings - and that's with a pretty loud 7 piece band on most occasions.

The 310 is my lazy cab. The 2 112's are my preference - stacked vertically to bring the horns closer to head height. I also stick an old Whirlwind DI box underneath the two cabs to tilt them back a little. I've never been stuck for volume or punch from this set-up.

[Tampabass]

hey, thanks for all the input.
Still figuring this out & looking around at some Epi cabs - 112s, 310s, 410s - on offer here and elsewhere.
My instinct is to go with the modular approach - get a second 112 or a 110, and combine 'em on bigger/louder gigs. But I don't want to do that & then still not be able to compete with gtrs/drums in a loud situation.
On the other other hand, I'm wondering how much my back would hate dealing with picking up and transporting a 410, even it is UL.
I really love the 30-lb weight of the 112.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

hey, thanks for all the input.
Still figuring this out & looking around at some Epi cabs - 112s, 310s, 410s - on offer here and elsewhere.
My instinct is to go with the modular approach - get a second 112 or a 110, and combine 'em on bigger/louder gigs. But I don't want to do that & then still not be able to compete with gtrs/drums in a loud situation.
On the other other hand, I'm wondering how much my back would hate dealing with picking up and transporting a 410, even it is UL.
I really love the 30-lb weight of the 112.

The 410UL will totally bury the two x 112UL in volume, low end, everything. However, the two x 112UL will put out a bit more volume and low end than the 310UL. It is kind of what you would suspect.

If a single 112UL is 'almost enough' for your loudest gigs, then adding a second one would be plenty.

The 112UL/110UL is nice, and the mid punch of the 110UL helps with the somewhat scooped tone profile of the 112UL, but would not put out quite the absolute volume of two x 112UL's, at least in a large room and true gigging situation.

Also...WARNING... the new UL's are significantly heavier than the originals. This happened a year or so into the Series II UL, when Epi moved production overseas I believe.

If you can find an older Series II 410UL, they are only around 57 pounds, and with castors, are very easy to move around. The newer ones (you can tell because the heavier UL's use the bigger hole PS grill material) add about 9 pounds.

Two 112UL's with 500 watts are so is an impressive stack... but isn't even in the same wump universe as the 410UL. The big question is how much more low end and volume do you need.

[Tampabass]

thanks, Kjung. Great info.
Another ? - on the older, series II 410ULs - do they come in both 4 ohms and 8 ohms versions? Any thoughts on the differences? I doubt I'd be stacking the 410 with any other cabs.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

thanks, Kjung. Great info.
Another ? - on the older, series II 410ULs - do they come in both 4 ohms and 8 ohms versions? Any thoughts on the differences? I doubt I'd be stacking the 410 with any other cabs.

They do come 4ohm or 8ohm. As with many things, the impact of impedance 'depends'.

With a large cab that really can take the power (both thermally and mechanically) like the 410UL, 4ohm can actually make quite a difference if you are using a relatively low powered head (i.e., the 400-600 watt micro heads). I've had the opportunity to directly A/B a 4ohm and 8ohm version of this cab, and when you crank them both with a moderate powered head, you get a bit more overall volume prior to power amp limiting, and a more open, full low end, especially on hard transients. With a DB750 or Mesa M9 or my old Walter Woods 1200, really no difference, since those heads have enough wump to drive the 410UL to full volume at 8ohms.

If you know you are never going to use more than a single 410UL, then 4ohms is kind of the safe bet.

One other thing, if you want a bit different flavor, the new Bergantino AE212 (55 pounds, 4ohms)) is really something. Probably 85% of the max volume of the 410UL, but with more punch and mid presence. REALLY nice box, especially with a 500 watt micro head. Very impressive, and I replaced my 410UL with it. Not quite as big down low, but more even and punchier in the mix to my ear, and smaller/cart friendly.

[Tampabass]

Thanks. I may look into the Berg, although if it's new it's likely out of my price range.

[babebambi]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

hey, thanks for all the input.
Still figuring this out & looking around at some Epi cabs - 112s, 310s, 410s - on offer here and elsewhere.
My instinct is to go with the modular approach - get a second 112 or a 110, and combine 'em on bigger/louder gigs. But I don't want to do that & then still not be able to compete with gtrs/drums in a loud situation.
On the other other hand, I'm wondering how much my back would hate dealing with picking up and transporting a 410, even it is UL.
I really love the 30-lb weight of the 112.

How 'bout this
Keep your UL112, get another UL212, then you have three different level of goodness.

[SlingBass4]

Originally Posted by KJung

The 410UL will totally bury the two x 112UL in volume, low end, everything. However, the two x 112UL will put out a bit more volume and low end than the 310UL. It is kind of what you would suspect.

If a single 112UL is 'almost enough' for your loudest gigs, then adding a second one would be plenty.

Exactly! I can't/won't dispute the 4ohm 410UL cab solution, and I've not tried the 112UL + 110UL combination, BUT I use two T-112NYC cabs with a UL-502 head that works to my complete satisfaction. Any more needed volume comes from going through the PA (sometimes done, anyway, for balance) OR I borrow/rent a larger cab or complete rig for a concert or special event. Two 112UL's with a small head are a dream to transport when space is of a concern, as well. My sound seems to give pleasure to those paying attention...as I frequently receive compliments on my setup and tone (and even on rare occasion with my playing)

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

anyone A/B'ed two 112s with one 410, of any make? I'm interested in thoughts on overall difference in volume/punch/tone, etc.

I have A/Bed a 2x12" cab with my 4x10 (I own both) - 4x10 is MUCH louder... but a different sound.

[jlepre]

Just add the second UL112 and call it a day. I used the single cab for practice, and small stages, and added the 2nd cab for larger rooms. It was very practical.