VT (or VTD) plus fEarful (or other modern cab) equals: ?????

[timbledum]

So I've been sucked into the hype of two of the most prevalent TB topics. Some people call them fads, some people swear by them, but it is undeniable that they are hot topics of conversation around here. I'm talking about the fEarful cabs and the VT/VTD Tech21 Pedals. Due to distance from the US and lack of funds I haven't invested in either and only had a chance to play around with the VT pedal, yet I'm seriously considering grabbing/building them both.

In various threads I've heard conflicting things about this combination. Some say all you need is the VT plus fEarful to cop a light, accurate SVT tone that transfers well to PA, while some say that the fEarful exposes the flaws in the VT, and the combo does not satisfactorily emulate the SVT tube head/810 rig. In my mind, any difficulty in getting a VT to sound good through a fEarful would pay off as the FOH engineers would get a signal more usable, and you would hear more of what the FOH engineers would get.

My question is, has anyone actually tried this combo, how did they find it, and would they recommend it. I'm not actually looking to perfectly emulate an SVT rig, just be able to cop it, but with all the advantages of a fEarful (versatility, dispersion, ability to handle low notes, weight) and with a smaller hit to the wallet to boot. I'm thinking of building a 12126 btw.

Quotes from threads (just to show I've searched but I would like to reopen discussion). If nothing else I've collated a number of posts on the issue for searches (those people who actually do search )

Originally Posted by Plstrns

That's the beauty in the f word cabs. If you want a 810 just put it on a stand, plug a VT into the amp = instant SVT + bullet proof 810.

Originally Posted by rpsands

Honestly, the only fault I find with the SVT 8x10 is that it's two drivers wide instead of being a one-driver wide 4x10 line array.

Sealed cabs are a valid choice and the top end character is unique, not something super easily achieved with a fEarful (although the VT Bass gets you to the point I doubt anyone but bass players could tell the difference).


That said, I'd love to see one of you guys tell the difference between a high end modeling rig set up to sound like an SVT+8x10 through a fEarful and an actual SVT 8x10

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i hear the berg nv610 is about the only true alternative but it's still going to be pretty heavy and bulky.

i will say this, though...there are times where you just can't bring an 810, so for that reason alone, i'm glad you can get well designed small neo cabs that move a ton of air. i've got plans to get a couple. and i'll either plug an svt into them or a vt deluxe/power amp. but it's going to sound like an svt direct into a pa through the output transformer. i tried an audiokinesis prototype with both an svt and a vt, and it sounds great, but it sounds like a speaker di into the pa. the vt can cop a good mic'ed cab tone with light use of its drive, but through those cabs it's still going to sound more pa like.

which is not a bad thing at all. some of the guys in my band liked the audiokinesis cab a lot better than the 810, and mine's an original flatback. if you're looking to do major damage in a small light package, they really are the way to go with the lf woofers and mid driver. it just doesn't sound or respond like an 810. no big whoop. just the way it is. accept it on its own terms and it's wonderful, though.

btw, i accept rp's challenge, as long as it doesn't cost me money or make me go anywhere

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

I've posted a number of times about my experiences with the VT Bass, both good and bad. As I said earlier in this thread, the good is that it absolutely delivers on it's goal of Ampeg emulation. No pedal will ever give you the true feeling of a pumping SVT but it matches the tone better than I thought a pedal could. B-15 sounds, old school, flabby tube tones and modern crunch is available too. The VT Bass flat out does it's intended job.

The bad (at least IMO) is that it is noisier than I'd like, has touchy controls and ESPECIALLY the Level control which goes from no sound to WAY too loud in just a few degrees. I also felt like unless you dialed back the highs significantly you got way too much clank for it to be useable. Similar to the BDDI in having the potential for "icepick" like highs.

For me personally, the low end rolloff was tough to deal with. It's an Ampeg emulator so it has a gradually rolloff way down low and a substantial rolloff over 5k Hz. With my GK rig the lows weren't as noticeable but with my Puma 1000/LDS fEarful 15/6 you very obviously lose some of the super deep, "punch you in the gut/chest" lows.

The other difficulty I had with it was that I liked being able to add some grit to my tone following a low pass filter for classic reggae and dub tones. The VT Bass just turns to mush in that application. Combine that with the low end rolloff and it meant I had to get a different OD for reggae stuff.

Again, the VT Bass does it's job very well but it isn't perfect.

As for other preamps/ODs? If you want an Ampeg like sound the Flipster sounds great. It actually simulates an SB-12 (which I've never played) rather than a B-15 but it cops the B-15 sound very well to my ears. The SFT is another option - touch sensitive and can do old or modern tones though I didn't get on with it at all.

For non-Ampeg sounds there's a whole world of preamps out there. The one most intriguing to me right now is the Microtubes B7K

Originally Posted by lbwdog

Exactly.....and that's why, as greenboy states in the above quoted post, that any variants are not fEarfuls, although they might share the same components and/or some other attributes.

I'm not a fEarful owner yet, but the dedication to detail that GB has exhibited in this design is a major reason my next cab will be one. Remember, he designed this for his own personal use, and along the way, decided to share with us. Heck, I'm not "golden eared", and probably can't hear many of the subtle differences, but I've been a proponent of a "faithful reproducer cab" for several years now, and all the design concepts fall in line with my desires. I will however, have a pro (probably LDS) execute the build for me.

On a side note, with several popular products designed to create certain sonic effects upstream (such as the VT Pedal, modelers, etc.), it only makes sense to have the most accurate cab possible to take advantage of the actual intent of these type products.

[rpsands]

Just for my quote, the VT bass is not a high end modeling rig.

That said: I use an MXR M80 through my rig on a regular basis for copping SVT-ish dirty tones, and I have no problem coming close enough for band mix work.

I think that the people who were having issues with the VT copping a vintage 8x10 tone were either being too picky (noticing subtle differences, or expecting monster bass out of the VT, which it doesn't deliver) or not doing it right.

It's my opinion that in order to satisfactorily emulate that SVT/810 tone, you need to:
1) Have a recording that you like as an example tone
2) Start with a VT bass and an extra eq. 2-band parametric or 7 band graphic should do it.

Lots of people expect to get the sound in their head just by twirling knobs and remembering, but it's worth your effort to be a little more scientific about it.

It's distinctly possible you will need to boost in the low mids somewhere to get enough punchiness out of the 15/6, since IIRC, the VT Bass does not have any means of adding at 300-400hz.

[JimmyM]

the vt isn't high end, but just like a lot of non-high-end products, has found its way into many studio situations, and will sound excellent in them.

as for needing an eq with the vt, you may, and you may not. the vt's eq is pretty interactive, and all the knobs seem to affect all the other knobs in some way, especially the character knob. can't say i ever had a problem getting what i wanted with simple eq's, but others may.

i still pretty much stand behind what i said earlier, though. it will cop a very good likeness of a mic'ed svt going through the pa, but i think those who are familiar with the sound of an svt/810 will be able to tell the difference.

[DONZI97]

Any other opinions on this? I have Standard P into a VT into a LM II on top of a fearful 15/6 and don't notice any low end loss, but seem to lack the low mids. I have to have the highs turned off on the vt or i get clank. I am still kinda undecided, since I really haven't used this setup in a band situation yet, only at practice volumes. Thinking about trying out a Tone Hammer and A/Bing them. I have a lot of tonal ideas I want to cop, but one that really sticks with me is Dan Maines of Clutchs' overdriven SVT tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fbpI...e_gdata_player

[JimmyM]

between the vt and the lmii you should be able to get all the low mids you'd ever want or need imho. but the low mids in the vt aren't located in the mid knob but the bass knob, which has a center of 125 hz.

[Son of Bovril]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

between the vt and the lmii you should be able to get all the low mids you'd ever want or need imho. but the low mids in the vt aren't located in the mid knob but the bass knob, which has a center of 125 hz.

agreed, the bass knob is more like low mids and I find if I need more LOW end I usually just dial the character knob counter clockwise a bit