Walkabout Scout Question

77PBass · #1 08-13-2011, 06:27 PM

How hard can you push a WAS 4ohm version? If you set the amp to the first settings in the manual (Huge & Round) does your speaker handle the volume?

I recently purchased a used WAS and I am trying to determine if the speaker is blown. The amp is fine and sounds great through my berg HT115 so the amp isn't the problem.

At moderately loud volume with the bass boosted, I am getting unwanted sounds. I don't know if the speaker can't handle the 300 watts or if it is blown. I will try and get to a GC and test one there but I thought I would ask on TB since many people have this amp.

wateroftyne · #2 08-13-2011, 06:34 PM

What kind of sounds? I got a flutter from the ports that sounded like a rattle.

77PBass · #3 08-13-2011, 06:49 PM

yeah, rattling but emanating from the speaker. It sounds like the grill is loose but it isn't. I tightened all the speaker screws and grill screws. I can't tell if it is normal at boosted bass and loud volume or the speaker needs replacing.

rodl2005 · #4 08-13-2011, 07:25 PM

Have you pressed the cone gently back n forth to see if it's blown the coil?
I've never used a 4 ohm Walkabout Scout combo, but my 8 ohm one will start to flub out with gain on 12 o'clock & master about 11.
So, I imagine the 4 ohm version-giving all 300w to a single 12" driver will do it even sooner

lomo · #5 08-13-2011, 07:50 PM

No single 112, other than a fEarful (or other similar design with that specific, long x-max woofer) can "use" 300 watts, period. 300 watts is the point at which the voice coil will be damaged, not the max useable power. I have posted many times that the scout 12 (like virtually all other stock, single 12s) will compress starting somewhere around 150 watts and get no louder after that, but will start to strain and do weird things. If you want to milk that head for all it's worth (which is a lot) then you need more cone area.....another 12, a 212, whatever.

rodl2005 · #6 08-13-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomo

No single 112, other than a fEarful (or other similar design with that specific, long x-max woofer) can "use" 300 watts, period. 300 watts is the point at which the voice coil will be damaged, not the max useable power. I have posted many times that the scout 12 (like virtually all other stock, single 12s) will compress starting somewhere around 150 watts and get no louder after that, but will start to strain and do weird things. If you want to milk that head for all it's worth (which is a lot) then you need more cone area.....another 12, a 212, whatever.

This! While the Scout cab is a Beauty, there's only so much it Can do on its own.
FWIW- I haven't found a cab the WA head sounds bad with.

77PBass · #7 08-14-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomo

No single 112, other than a fEarful (or other similar design with that specific, long x-max woofer) can "use" 300 watts, period. 300 watts is the point at which the voice coil will be damaged, not the max useable power. I have posted many times that the scout 12 (like virtually all other stock, single 12s) will compress starting somewhere around 150 watts and get no louder after that, but will start to strain and do weird things. If you want to milk that head for all it's worth (which is a lot) then you need more cone area.....another 12, a 212, whatever.

I agree with what you are saying. If this is true, the usable volume of the scout 12 is pretty low. I have an 8 ohm berg AE112 that I will test with the WA head today.

Btw....them amp sounded great through an 8 ohm ht115 with far more usable volume. I don't play particularly loud music but I guess I am surprised by the scout's 12.

I guess my question is, given a passive bass, what is the maximum master volume you can use with gain at 10:30 -11:00 and the bass control at 2:00 and the low para eq at 2:00 at 50hz before the speaker gives up the ghost?

77PBass · #8 08-14-2011, 06:58 AM

I found this from Chef in the WA thread:

"whether I'm playing electric or DB, my walkabout setup seldom varies from:
input gain at noon
bass straight up
mids at 10-11 oclock

para EQ:
bass set at 50hz, trimmed some
mids set at 400hz, trimmed a tiny bit
treble set at 2khz, boosted a tad

treble at about 11 oclock.

about the only change i make by room or by instrument is how much 50hz i'm trimming to keep it "fat, but tight."

master volume set as needed."

This fairly conservative bass wise compared to my settings but I wonder what is the max master setting you can use with chef's settings. I will try his settings and see where I can set the master before things go wonky.

derrico1 · #9 08-14-2011, 07:07 AM

Depends on how hot the signal is that you're feeding it. IME, the 4 ohm combos are at max volume with gain and master set a little short of noon--and that's with eq essentially flat. Bumping the pre/master after above noon just got me a woolier and more compressed tone.

I haven't put an SPL meter in front of the combo, so I can't tell you exactly how loud that is. However, as a point of comparison, the WA combo more than holds its own against a Fender Deluxe, but against typical Fender Twin or half stack volumes the WA head wants more speakers to keep up.

With the bumped tone you're going for, I'd expect less headroom with the single combo speaker.

77PBass · #10 08-14-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derrico1

Depends on how hot the signal is that you're feeding it. IME, the 4 ohm combos are at max volume with gain and master set a little short of noon--and that's with eq essentially flat. Bumping the pre/master after above noon just got me a woolier and more compressed tone.

With the bumped tone you're going for, I'd expect less headroom with the single combo speaker.

My test signal is from a '65 JB. My concern is not SPL but rather is the speaker fried. I have 15 days to return the amp. I'll test Chef's and your settings and post my own.

lomo · #11 08-14-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77PBass

I agree with what you are saying. If this is true, the usable volume of the scout 12 is pretty low. I have an 8 ohm berg AE112 that I will test with the WA head today.

Btw....them amp sounded great through an 8 ohm ht115 with far more usable volume. I don't play particularly loud music but I guess I am surprised by the scout's 12.

I guess my question is, given a passive bass, what is the maximum master volume you can use with gain at 10:30 -11:00 and the bass control at 2:00 and the low para eq at 2:00 at 50hz before the speaker gives up the ghost?

The only way to answer that is by carefully listening to the speaker. You might consider a replacement 8 Oh driver from Mesa, and then use the combo on top of the 15, or try it with the AE12 and the 15; that'll bring the thunder. If I put mine on a 4 Ohm GB Neox 212, it's very loud-enough for me to do a small to medium bar sans PA (loud rock band). If I add a 3rd 12 (2.67 Ohms), there's generous headroom, even with the gain at noon or 1 o'clock. The output is highly dependent on how clean you like it. If you want lots of grit (usually gain past 1 o'clock/passive input/ "average" bass) then you can milk a lot more volume.

RickenBoogie · #12 08-14-2011, 07:52 AM

Yes to everything lomo has posted. You can't determine a particular setting, because it'll be different for every player, depending on your playing style. The WA is an awesome amp, but the 4 ohm Scout cab is almost completely useless, (to me). I sold mine, and always use a 4 ohm 2x12 with my WA. With the way the op is boosing the low end, you'll never get enough from the little 12 alone. +1 to all lomo's suggestions.

77PBass · #13 08-14-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomo

The only way to answer that is by carefully listening to the speaker. You might consider a replacement 8 Oh driver from Mesa, and then use the combo on top of the 15, or try it with the AE12 and the 15; that'll bring the thunder.

Let me say I am very happy with the head. I own 2 HT115's and an AE112. These speakers and the head will allow me to cover any situation I find myself in. The WA with 2 8 ohm HT115's should sound like Zeus throwing lightning bolts.

What I am trying to find out is, does this used speaker operate within the standard parameters of a WAS or is it wonky. If wonky, I will ask for a discount to pay for a replacement speaker.

I wonder if it is sounds wonky because I played a WAS in a GC and recall playing pretty loud at my settings. The problem with the comparison is my memory may be subjective, the room was an enclosed amp area and the amp was on the floor. I didn't have it pointing at my ears so any extraneous noise would have been masked by being off axis.

77PBass · #14 08-14-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

The WA is an awesome amp, but the 4 ohm Scout cab is almost completely useless, (to me). I sold mine, and always use a 4 ohm 2x12 with my WA. With the way the op is boosing the low end, you'll never get enough from the little 12 alone. +1 to all lomo's suggestions.

This may be the case. I suspect the AE112 will be a better performer than the WAS 12. I say this because I used a BT500 with it and it sounded great and I was surprised at the volume from the 12. I know you are going to say the BT500 is 500 watts @ 8 ohms but believe me, I never tapped into those watts. Gain was at 9 and master was at maybe 8.

To be clear, I am not knocking the WAS. I may question the value of the cab weight and 12" speaker capabilities for the amp in a combo, but that is a different subject.

77PBass · #15 08-14-2011, 12:34 PM

Ok did a side by side test between the WAS 12 4 ohm and the AE112 8 ohm. Settings were the factory sample settings in the manual for "Huge & Round." Master at 11:00. I used my Nash '62 JB with Lollars as the input. Gain was at 1:00.

As I expected, the berg handled it well and didn't give up. The WAS 12 produced a squeaking sound like a hinge needing oil at the same setting.

The next thing to do is test another WAS with the same settings and see if that speaker behaves the same as mine. If anyone out there has a WAS and wants to perform the test and report on it it would be greatly appreciated.

RickenBoogie · #16 08-14-2011, 01:32 PM

Well, using the 4 ohm Scout cab, the amp is pushing 300 watts, while using the AE12 @ 8 ohms, it's only pushing 185 watts. That alone makes a big difference. So, though your test is valid, it's also meaningless.

lomo · #17 08-14-2011, 01:34 PM

Keep in mind your Scout is taking twice the power that the Berg is "seeing" due to the impedance difference. That's why an 8 Ohm Scout 12 makes more sense.
Oops-RickenB beat me to it :-)

lomo · #18 08-14-2011, 01:37 PM

A more useful test might be to try and adjust eq so that the 2 cabs to sound similar (different setting for each), and see whether they both have a similar max volume.

77PBass · #19 08-14-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Well, using the 4 ohm Scout cab, the amp is pushing 300 watts, while using the AE12 @ 8 ohms, it's only pushing 185 watts. That alone makes a big difference. So, though your test is valid, it's also meaningless.

How is it meaningless? At the same settings, the WAS is eating more watts? The volume is relatively the same (subjective I know). To make the test even, I should turn the master down 50% when using the WAS speaker?

The point of this exercise is to determine if the speaker is blown with the equipment I have. If someone was to say they had a 4 ohm WAS and used the same settings and got the squeaking sound then the speaker is fine and it is a matter too much power available for the speaker. I get the concept.

One has to wonder about the utility of a 4 ohm WAS combo. It seems to me that an 8ohm combo with an 8 ohm extension to access all 300 watts is the way to go.

RickenBoogie · #20 08-14-2011, 02:00 PM

Except the settings are meaningless, except to you. Everyone plays differently, so your settings with my hands would be completely different. If the speaker was blown it would be more obvious than if it's just straining- and the wattage difference between 4 and 8 ohms changes the whole game. Bottom line is, the 4 ohm Scout cannot handle the power of the WA amp. Period. As great as I think Mesa bass gear is, the whole "maxing out the power" by using a 4 ohm combo is just plain stupid. The 8 ohm Scout does make alot more sense, but unfortunately, most buyers want "max power" from the combo. It's a vicious cycle. Didn't mean to offend you, just trying to enlighten you. I've been a WA user for 5 years, got rid of my 4 ohm Scout after 1 year, and happily using a 4 ohm 2x12 ever since.