Walter Woods Electracoustic Stereo Green Light - Good Deal?

[FBassed]

OK, I just closed a deal on one of these - a late '96 model. The catch was it didn't work but Walter said he can fix it (I spoke to him about it).

All said and done, it will cost me about $1900 for the broken WW amp and to to have Walter repair it which, he says, will make it "like new" including upgraded components. Cosmetically, it's in excellent shape.

So is this a good deal? I'm hoping the risk I'm taking will be worth it. It's a bit late to ask, I know, but I'd like to get some opinions from those more aquainted with Walter's amps. Maybe a bit of buyer's remorse? Perhaps. Anyway, it will be driving Berg HT112ER's when I get it back from Walter and I've heard very good things about this setup...

[naturalkinds]

Lord knows I wouldn't do it. That's a lot of coin for a broken amp that will allegedly work as new when repaired.

It's only a good deal if you're jonesing for a WW. Otherwise, there are dozens of great amps in the world. In '96? Maybe then there'd be a little more of a case for spending this much coin on a microamp, but we have 15 years of technological advances and production techniques behind us.

IMO. YMMV.

[Low Class]

I've seen them working for $1200 to $1500. You can buy a used Ultra for what you're paying.

[smperry]

Originally Posted by Low Class

You can buy a used Ultra for what you're paying.

agreed.

[KJung]

I would also not do this, especially with all the amazing micro's out on the market that you can buy new with warranty for between $600 and $1,500.

FYI, Used Utras typically sell for around $2,400. I wouldn't do that either!

[smperry]

Originally Posted by KJung

I would also not do this, especially with all the amazing micro's out on the market that you can buy new with warranty for between $600 and $1,500.

That's an even better reason!

[Johnius]

In discussing Walter Woods' amps with my teacher he said to me, "I'll tell you how good they are, I have two of them." This came from a guy who's only job is playing bass. My point is he knows how to make it pay. If Walter told you it will be like new when it's overhauled, then it probably will be. Other posters say you paid too much but they don't consider the upgrades you're getting. You are probably fine with this amp.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Johnius

In discussing Walter Woods' amps with my teacher he said to me, "I'll tell you how good they are, I have two of them." This came from a guy who's only job is playing bass. My point is he knows how to make it pay. If Walter told you it will be like new when it's overhauled, then it probably will be. Other posters say you paid too much but they don't consider the upgrades you're getting. You are probably fine with this amp.

I gigged one Walter or another for almost 20 years (and my job was playing bass also during that period). They are fine amps, they have their own sound, etc.

IMO and IME, things have come a LONG way in the class D/SMPS world since Walter developed even the newer Electracoustic models.

So, +1, it you want the Walter Woods tone, there is only one way to really get that. Whether that Walter tone is worth the brutal price these days is, of course, a personal decision. I don't miss my Ultra for one second.

Just another point of view from a long time Walter user, and in general, a Walter Woods fan. If I played only DB, I might feel differently though.

[Johnius]

Originally Posted by KJung

IMO and IME, things have come a LONG way in the class D/SMPS world since Walter developed even the newer Electracoustic models.

Whether that Walter tone is worth the brutal price these days is, of course, a personal decision. I don't miss my Ultra for one second.

I have to admit I do not know the history of advances in Woods' amps because for an non-pro like me they're just too much money, brutal in price, like you said. When I get to play through my teachers', though, I'm always in love with the tone. Sorry for the OT, OP, but K, why don't you miss yours?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Johnius

I have to admit I do not know the history of advances in Woods' amps because for an non-pro like me they're just too much money, brutal in price, like you said. When I get to play through my teachers', though, I'm always in love with the tone. Sorry for the OT, OP, but K, why don't you miss yours?

Again, great amps, just overpriced now, and, per your other question, I find some of the new micro's perform as well or better volume-wise (tone, of course, is a personal thing) for a fraction of the price. I moved from a Walter Woods Ultra to a Markbass F1 and now the updated F1 called the F500, and find, at least with electric bass in a pop/funk/rock sort of context, the low end is more meaty, the volume is just as good (at least into 4ohms.. the Walter is pretty darn impressive with a big 8ohm cab), and the features (e.g., a good quality DI) are superior (smaller and lighter too.. bonus!).

Again, if the Walter tone is your thing, you pretty much have to pony up to the table with your wallet. However, I would highly recommend trying a few of the top notch micro's in the 'under $1,000 price range' (GK, MarkBass, Genz, etc.) prior to pumping out the big bucks for the Walter.

Again, I'm speaking as an electric bassist. There is still something quite magic to me about the Walter voicing and a double bass... the airy top end and the bit more refined/polite low end really works for many DB applications.

Pure IMO based on lots of IME

[KJung]

PS To the OP... if Walter said he could fix it 'good as new', I'd take that to the bank... totally class act. That isn't really an issue IMO.

[jkumnick]

Since you're already committed to this amp you'll find out soon whether it was worth it. Having had an WW ultra high power (blue light) head for about 10 years now I can say that they sound great and I have not had one problem with it in all that time. Many gigs in many different situations and it has always performed flawlessly. Remember that you're getting a handmade amp from a one person shop where he does everything. The thing I've always liked about this amp is that it lets the character of each bass I have come through whether it's fretted, fretless or an upright. Good luck with it!

[FBassed]

Well, again I'm blown away with how awesome TB is. What a great resource. Thanks all for your input - I value it whether it's pro or con. I need a reality check every once in a while and this is a great place to get one!

So with all the input, I'm actually feeling pretty good about this, particularly since:
1) I am looking for that WW tone (I wouldn't be doing this otherwise)
2) I already have cabs that many have commented in other threads are particulary well suited to Walter's amps
3) I actually prefer the stereo green light model over the Ultra anyway (1000 watts bridged is plenty for me and I like the added flexibility the stereo capabilities provide)
4) Walter is a stand up guy by all accounts (thanks KJung) and being an EE myself, I admire what he has done. I pulled off the covers and I was impressed how solid the build is. BTW, this amp did not fail on it's own - it got doused with beer and died gracefully (nothing burnt inside). No probems at all in the 14 years of use before that and no dates marked inside indicating any rework or repair to it. Walter is aware of this damage and is confident he can fix it.
5) My final cost appears to be in line with (or lower than) the same models I seen advertised lately - and this unit will be "like new".

So again thanks all for your input - even if some of you may think I'm nuts for taking this risk (my wife certainly thinks so, but thankfully she tolerates me). The amp gets mailed off to Walter today, so hopefully I'll get it back soon for some rigorous comparisons. If I end up preferring my current Read/IP setup, I can always sell the WW. I think I'm gonna like it though...

[Low Class]

Originally Posted by FBassed

Well, again I'm blown away with how awesome TB is. What a great resource. Thanks all for your input - I value it whether it's pro or con. I need a reality check every once in a while and this is a great place to get one!

So with all the input, I'm actually feeling pretty good about this, particularly since:
1) I am looking for that WW tone (I wouldn't be doing this otherwise)
2) I already have cabs that many have commented in other threads are particulary well suited to Walter's amps
3) I actually prefer the stereo green light model over the Ultra anyway (1000 watts bridged is plenty for me and I like the added flexibility the stereo capabilities provide)
4) Walter is a stand up guy by all accounts (thanks KJung) and being an EE myself, I admire what he has done. I pulled off the covers and I was impressed how solid the build is. BTW, this amp did not fail on it's own - it got doused with beer and died gracefully (nothing burnt inside). No probems at all in the 14 years of use before that and no dates marked inside indicating any rework or repair to it. Walter is aware of this damage and is confident he can fix it.
5) My final cost appears to be in line with (or lower than) the same models I seen advertised lately - and this unit will be "like new".

So again thanks all for your input - even if some of you may think I'm nuts for taking this risk (my wife certainly thinks so, but thankfully she tolerates me). The amp gets mailed off to Walter today, so hopefully I'll get it back soon for some rigorous comparisons. If I end up preferring my current Read/IP setup, I can always sell the WW. I think I'm gonna like it though...

Green Light 1000 watt? I thought you had the Green Light 450 watter. It's worth about $2250. 2 years ago it was worth close to 3k. I just sold 2 of them for $2250 each. You may or may not like this amp with the 112ER, I didn't. It sounds better with the older HT112 IMO.

[dpbass66]

Been playing WW for about 15 years now. First was a green light stereo (cant rememebr the power), and now for about 7 years the Ultra Blue Light 1200W. I agree with Ken's assessment on newer technology and how the WW works well for acoustic bass. I would add another category of EB where it works well. If you are one of those guys that has super nice boutique basses that you bought JUST because you want THAT certain bass's sound, that only your boutique bass provides, and you want as transparent a system as possible, I think the WW amps are screaming. I play my Fodera, through the WW into Berg cabs. Perfect for my taste. There may be other (more affordable) amps and cabs that work as well or better in different settings from mine (which is usually straight ahead jazz, blues, funk, fusion).

Also, I'll reinforce other commentary here that Walter is a stand-up guy, class act. he deosnt have time to be all chatty, but when it comes to your piece and your questions he is super thorough and patient. He also remembers me each time I call, which has been maybe 10 times in all those years. Also, both of my WW amps have proven perfectly reliable. No failures, breakdowns, at all whatsoever.

If you want the unique qualities that only the WW can provide, then I say go for it.

Ken....I may be checking ot the F500 as an alternate amp......my curiosity is piqued.

[B String]

Originally Posted by KJung

Again, great amps, just overpriced now, and, per your other question, I find some of the new micro's perform as well or better volume-wise (tone, of course, is a personal thing) for a fraction of the price. I moved from a Walter Woods Ultra to a Markbass F1 and now the updated F1 called the F500, and find, at least with electric bass in a pop/funk/rock sort of context, the low end is more meaty, the volume is just as good (at least into 4ohms.. the Walter is pretty darn impressive with a big 8ohm cab), and the features (e.g., a good quality DI) are superior (smaller and lighter too.. bonus!).

To some extent, its all in the mids for me with Woods amps.

A while back I started auditioning amp after amp after amp. They all sounded good, but different. Some had better highs, some had better lows, but no amp I checked out could come near Walters amps in the mids. From the middle, (G string) to the top of the bass, no other amp had the complexity in the tone. The F1 (F500) was not out at that time, and I must say that in my opinion, the F500 is the closest production amp to the Woods that I've heard. Both the Woods and the F500 are about equally lacking in the extended lows but have a beautiful low mid up to the highs, with the Woods being a little sweeter in the highs.

So yes, there are other amps out that are very good but none of them sound like a Woods, and with few exceptions, none are as reliable year after year.

[FBassed]

Originally Posted by dpbass66

I would add another category of EB where it works well. If you are one of those guys that has super nice boutique basses that you bought JUST because you want THAT certain bass's sound, that only your boutique bass provides, and you want as transparent a system as possible, I think the WW amps are screaming.

I'll be playing an FBass AC5 through this mostly. Really looking forward to it's sound through this. I had an instructor with the same bass thru a WW Ultra and Berg HT112 cabs that sounded absolutely phenominal. I don't have his fingers, but at least the bass and rig should help get me there - eventually.

Originally Posted by Low Class

Green Light 1000 watt? I thought you had the Green Light 450 watter. It's worth about $2250. 2 years ago it was worth close to 3k. I just sold 2 of them for $2250 each. You may or may not like this amp with the 112ER, I didn't. It sounds better with the older HT112 IMO.

Thanks for this comment - I feel MUCH better now. Kinda confirms that I'm doing okay with the deal. I thought this was about the going rate for these now. And yes, this is the stereo green light model that puts out 1000W @ 4 ohm bridged (450W is the mono green light version I believe). Interesting - the original invoice/instruction sheets that the seller (original owner) gave me shows that Walter also offered higher powered stereo amber and blue light versions that were up to 800W per side (4 ohm) and 2200W bridged (4 ohm). Yikes! I wonder if he ever sold any of those. Maybe Walter can do a blue light upgrade to mine while he overhauls it? I'll ask anyhow!

Again, thanks everyone for all the input...

[Low Class]

Originally Posted by FBassed

I'll be playing an FBass AC5 through this mostly. Really looking forward to it's sound through this. I had an instructor with the same bass thru a WW Ultra and Berg HT112 cabs that sounded absolutely phenominal. I don't have his fingers, but at least the bass and rig should help get me there - eventually.



Thanks for this comment - I feel MUCH better now. Kinda confirms that I'm doing okay with the deal. I thought this was about the going rate for these now. And yes, this is the stereo green light model that puts out 1000W @ 4 ohm bridged (450W is the mono green light version I believe). Interesting - the original invoice/instruction sheets that the seller (original owner) gave me shows that Walter also offered higher powered stereo amber and blue light versions that were up to 800W per side (4 ohm) and 2200W bridged (4 ohm). Yikes! I wonder if he ever sold any of those. Maybe Walter can do a blue light upgrade to mine while he overhauls it? I'll ask anyhow!

Again, thanks everyone for all the input...

I was one of 3 or 4 people that had the 2200 watt model( I know Patitucci had one). About a week after he sent them out he recalled them because of an error he made and it was prone to catching fire. That was the end of the 2200 watter. The 1200 watt blue light mono and the 1000 watt stereo was the biggest he made from there on. I doubt he will convert your stereo to a mono, different preamps. Ask anyway, you never know with Walter.

[FBassed]

Originally Posted by Low Class

I was one of 3 or 4 people that had the 2200 watt model( I know Patitucci had one). About a week after he sent them out he recalled them because of an error he made and it was prone to catching fire. That was the end of the 2200 watter. The 1200 watt blue light mono and the 1000 watt stereo was the biggest he made from there on. I doubt he will convert your stereo to a mono, different preamps. Ask anyway, you never know with Walter.

Wow, I had no idea. "Prone to catching fire"? Sounds scary - but then that's a lot of wattage in such a small enclosure. I can see Walter's reasoning of recalling and discontinuing that model!

He did list a stereo amber light (one notch above the stereo green light) which I've inquired about in an answering machine message to him. Haven't heard from him yet - but sounds like anything bigger than the stereo green light power level is remote. Again the stereo green light is powerful enough for me. The stereo amber light was listed as 350-550W/side and 1100-1500W bridged, which would put it right there with the mono Ultra...

[interp]

I have the exact same WW head that you describe (mine was made in 1997). I've owned it for about 4-5 years; for the last year and a half I have been playing it through a Berg stack (HT112ER and HT112EX), usually playing a 62 Jazz bass. Tiny rooms, large rooms, outdoors, FOH, no PA support, whatever -- it ALWAYS sounds phenomenal. I know some posters have faulted its alleged lack of big bottom, but I for one have never experienced this.

I generally run it bridged into one cab at 8 ohms (700 watts) or both cabs at 4 ohms (1000 watts). The thing has never gotten beyond slightly warm.

My mother lives about a mile from Walter's house. A couple of years ago while visiting her I was able to spend an hour and a half in his workshop while he did a checkup on my amp. What an amazing person! Other posters were absolutely correct -- Walter says what he does and does what he says -- your amp WILL be as good or better than new.

My opinion is that having $1900 in a WW stereo newly revamped by the Man is a very Good Thing indeed.