What makes an 8x10 do what it does?

[Brent Hahn]

When the SVT came out, it was the only big-amp choice besides the Acoustic, which was an 18" in a folded horn arrangement that was tough to hear onstage (it sent all the energy past your knees) but would annihilate anyone down in front. The SVT was closer to ear-height, more responsive, and just plain sounded more like rock 'n' roll. They were both about the same price and equally nasty on a flight of stairs, so the SVT was the clear winner for a lot of people.

[lfmn16]

These types of threads always give me a laugh. If my favorite sound is an 8X10 cabinet, why should I care what someone else thinks about them? And why do these guys with their slide rules and pocket protectors get so mad and insistent that they are right? You can talk physics until you are blue in the face, but I hear what I hear. BTW I use a 2X10 cabinet so I'm not arguing for or against 8X10 cabinets.

I guess these types of arguments keep the forum going strong, but if people just listened with their ears instead of giving so much weight to anonymous voices on the Internet, there would be much less discord.

Music isn't math and there are numerous variables otherwise everyone who picked up a stock mia fender jazz and played it through an SVT woulda sound exactly alike.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by iualum

Your miscalculation is that everyone (or even many) want it bad enough.

I know few do, I simply hold out hope for those who might want to. Naive? Nope, sometimes the right word to the right person at the right time for them is what gets them going. As a teacher or parent, that's all you can do.

[Granddesign]

I tried many different combos (4x10, with 1x15, 4x10 with 1x 18, 1x15,1x18, 6x10,8x10, etc) We play Christian Rock/Worship music and Once I played an Ampeg 8x10 it was the right sound for us. Bass that was boomy but still cut through. I think its all a matter of personal opinion and what tone you want. In a few years I may be using 2x12's who knows. But it is still all about personal preference and the tone you are looking for.

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by iualum

Your miscalculation is that everyone (or even many) want it bad enough.

No calculation he said "if". Really though, what is yer beef?

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

I know few do, I simply hold out hope for those who might want to. Naive? Nope, sometimes the right word to the right person at the right time for them is what gets them going. As a teacher or parent, that's all you can do.

Like and agree. 8x10, 2x12, or whatever you run. Parent, teacher, or other..

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

These types of threads always give me a laugh. If my favorite sound is an 8X10 cabinet, why should I care what someone else thinks about them? And why do these guys with their slide rules and pocket protectors get so mad and insistent that they are right? You can talk physics until you are blue in the face, but I hear what I hear. BTW I use a 2X10 cabinet so I'm not arguing for or against 8X10 cabinets.

I guess these types of arguments keep the forum going strong, but if people just listened with their ears instead of giving so much weight to anonymous voices on the Internet, there would be much less discord.

Music isn't math and there are numerous variables otherwise everyone who picked up a stock mia fender jazz and played it through an SVT woulda sound exactly alike.

There's a lot of art in this and much of our choices boil down to that non-rational artistic impulse. You have to go with it if you're being true as an artist.

The physics and engineering are simply tools and techniques to help you get there and attempt to understand certain aspects, In fact they can help you get where you want to go. Their role is subservient to the art, however, IMHO.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the 810 format, it has its pluses and minuses like any other engineering solution.

Yes, there are newer designs that can outperform it pound for pound but at the end of the day you have to go with the artist in you as to whether or not what works for you.

BTW, I'm not an 810 user, in fact I prefer old JBL and EVM 15s for what I do, but I do recognize the 810 has it's own mojo and well, they do sound pretty cool.

[rogypop]

dont forget the cool factor.

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by iualum

810s are passe.

What do you run?

[fdeck]

A brief article on how sealed and ported speakers work, with no bias for or against 8x10's:

http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/speaker.pdf

[Chef]

Moderator insert:
Namecalling, insults and profanity will not be allowed in these forums.

Make your points nicely or stay home. If I get hailed back in here tonight, I'll be handing out bigger citations.

[Tony Flow MMMM]

It's ridiculous when you have two parties. Both equally wrong in their own right.

There's the new wave that ONLY wants a spec sheet. Screw the human ear all they want is numbers. It proves everything. Until you factor in humans.

Then there's the others that try to use their ears but again because we're human something such as a myth or marketing becomes their reality. That's very easy to do.

We all over analyze things far to much. Plenty of people got away with mixed unmatched powered drivers and are here to tell the tail. Do what gets YOU off cause honestly unless something on your rig is horribly wrong. I'm talking running a phaser into a distortion pedal into a tremolo on a jazz song, the audience won't know OR care.

And unless your providing every audience member with a spec sheet of your setup they won't care that you have the most perfect audiophile rig. And if you think your sound is going to amazing sound you have conjured up is going to sound perfect at every spot in the room from every angle or height your only kidding yourself.

I have only played one OMG THIS US HORRIBLE rig in my life and it was a sundown 10" combo. The cab would resonate at certain frequencies leaving some notes crazy loud and others unaudiable.

Can we just play bass now?

[TheMightyWoot1]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

It's ridiculous when you have two parties. Both equally wrong in their own right.

There's the new wave that ONLY wants a spec sheet. Screw the human ear all they want is numbers. It proves everything. Until you factor in humans.

Then there's the others that try to use their ears but again because we're human something such as a myth or marketing becomes their reality. That's very easy to do.

We all over analyze things far to much. Plenty of people got away with mixed unmatched powered drivers and are here to tell the tail. Do what gets YOU off cause honestly unless something on your rig is horribly wrong. I'm talking running a phaser into a distortion pedal into a tremolo on a jazz song, the audience won't know OR care.

And unless your providing every audience member with a spec sheet of your setup they won't care that you have the most perfect audiophile rig. And if you think your sound is going to amazing sound you have conjured up is going to sound perfect at every spot in the room from every angle or height your only kidding yourself.

I have only played one OMG THIS US HORRIBLE rig in my life and it was a sundown 10" combo. The cab would resonate at certain frequencies leaving some notes crazy loud and others unaudiable.

Can we just play bass now?

Love this post.

[Mugre]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Music isn't math and there are numerous variables otherwise everyone who picked up a stock mia fender jazz and played it through an SVT woulda sound exactly alike.

All the factors that define western music are based on mathematic principles that describe the physics of sound. The placement of your frets was described and defined by Pythagoras. Those same ratios that describe the harmonic series describe harmonic (chordal) theory. At one level of understanding, all that music is, is math. Music is not noise because it is structured instead of chaotic and structures can be measured and described mathematically. Therefore we can describe it, understand it and discern it from magic.

The above in no way connotes that I don't believe that music is also artistic expression and capable of magical sublimity.

mugre

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by hardtwister

What is special about an 8x10? How can they kill like they do with tens? What makes them special? 8x10 vs 1x15 & 4x10 combined? Please explain the magic of the 8x10..
Is Ampeg the only way? How do diff 8x10 cabs compare?
Thank you!

The special is:

Stacked Sealed Cabs 4 x 210

[Steve Dallman]

Ampeg's description of the SVT 8x10 when it first appeared touted the SVT's inability to reproduce the fundamental of a low E as a wonderful feature. The design of the 8x10 is not unlike the old Bose 802's or 901's. You get the highs of the smaller drivers, and the speakers together on that large plane all work together to produce the low end, acting as a much larger speaker. Now remember that the original SVT was meant to drive TWO 8X10's as the 10" speakers of the day couldn't handle the wattage of that amp. Today, drivers are far more robust. Despite detractors for whatever reason, the 8X10 is still the standard on concert stages and has been for many years.

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallman

Ampeg's description of the SVT 8x10 when it first appeared touted the SVT's inability to reproduce the fundamental of a low E as a wonderful feature. The design of the 8x10 is not unlike the old Bose 802's or 901's. You get the highs of the smaller drivers, and the speakers together on that large plane all work together to produce the low end, acting as a much larger speaker. Now remember that the original SVT was meant to drive TWO 8X10's as the 10" speakers of the day couldn't handle the wattage of that amp. Today, drivers are far more robust. Despite detractors for whatever reason, the 8X10 is still the standard on concert stages and has been for many years.

That's impossible.

[Tony Flow MMMM]

Originally Posted by Mugre

All the factors that define western music are based on mathematic principles that describe the physics of sound. The placement of your frets was described and defined by Pythagoras. Those same ratios that describe the harmonic series describe harmonic (chordal) theory. At one level of understanding, all that music is, is math. Music is not noise because it is structured instead of chaotic and structures can be measured and described mathematically. Therefore we can describe it, understand it and discern it from magic.

The above in no way connotes that I don't believe that music is also artistic expression and capable of magical sublimity.

mugre

But your putting the chicken before the egg it seems.

We don't have frets placed in the position they are BECAUSE of math. No, people have played fretless long before, the math is just a tool for standardizing it in construction.

We're getting off subject because the debate was about the math in a speaker configurations. Anyho.

Music isn't formed because of math, music is formed and then translated into math because it makes it easier to share with others. Without math or numbers there would still be a beats per minute we just wouldn't have anything to call it. And there's no rule that says it has to stay cobsistant so there goes that math. As far as chord structures they sound good because of the ways the waves combine, we just use math to explain the waves.

Theory of relativity IS similar in that there are no hard facts, its all dependent on millions if things relative to the human.

[rollerberg2000]

Larger speaker diameter doesn't mean "louder". If bigger speakers were better, we would have seen 3 foot diameter subs with 400 lb. magnets by now....

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

Music isn't formed because of math, music is formed and then translated into math ....

Paradox

But where is the physical origin of 2nd and 3d Harmonics?