What makes an 8x10 do what it does?

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by iualum

LDS 215 w/3015s & Selenium D220Ti/HM25-25.

I have a guy gassing for my old V4 cab. His plan is to remove the stock CTS 12's and load it with modern 12's designed for bass. And just when 12's were looking like the new dope.. Here comes a 15" that does things they didn't do before. Maybe the "fridge" will become less common as new designs and technoly progress. I think the Gigmaster builds are interesting..

I will never forget some of the shows I've seen over the years where an 8x10 was employed. It sure left an impression on me. Even then I wondered about the "magic" of this combination. Maybe 15's have finally caught up and will take over, or maybe there's still something to the 8x10.. Colors perhaps.

[4StringShooter]

Originally Posted by vishuddha

Nothing about 810s is special... it's really a pretty average setup. I'll stick with a 215 any day.

Also, comparing an 810 to a 410+115 setup is pretty ridiculous... apples and rotten oranges. 410+115 is inferior to 810s OR 215s in almost every imaginable scenario.

<< I'll stick with a 215 any day.>>

Me too.

I sold my SVT.

[wcriley]

Needless post now that the post I replied to has been deleted.

[Bass_Pounder]

Nevermind

[Chef]

Moderator insert:
Second time: make your points politely without namecalling insults and profanity, or -don't post.-
Further reminders that good behavior is a requirement here will result in this thread getting locked.

[klejst]

They are cabs with eight 10" speakers in them over cabs that have lesser number of speakers in them with 10's or bigger inch speakers. The are the "big boys" of sound and volume, however each can be different. They are the cabs you see most of the time on big stages around the world being used by professional bassists. As for comparing 8x10's, that is up to you to decide which sounds the best and is the right one for you. Ampeg's are great and can also be called a standard along with as others have mentioned a SVT amp on top.

[seamonkey]

IMHO - 8x10 are just a traditional formula.
There are other formulas that can behave better. Consider and 8x10 versus a 12" Titan 29 from Bill Fitzmaurice:



In the bass, Clearly the 12" is lower and louder than the 8x10.
It's lighter and cheaper.

If you had just one good 1x10, full range, then moving it closer to your ear would sound just as good as 8 of them from a distance. Same tone, same quality, just less volume.

The growth of FOH, and IEMs is ending loud stage volumes, Even metal bands are getting better control of their out front sound by controlling stage volume, musicians are happier to hear themselves. Instead of thinking you need an 8x10, you need to think and in ear is closer to your ear and better control of stage volume so the mix can happen FOH.

If you don't have FOH, You will likely soon will as you grow.

[George Mann]

As the 810 was created to be the perfect 4-string bass cab, and I happen to be a 4-string player, I like them the best!

To answer the question is to hear a 4-string thru my setup.

It is comprised of a modified Ampeg V4B, 2 Accuphase M-1000's and 4 810's. The top have of them are filled with Hartke aluminum cones, the bottom half with Eminence BP102's.

[rollerberg2000]

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Dang it Rollerberg, does this mean I need to stop hauling around eight of these?

Okay, forget what I said in my previous post. I'm very interested in these

[landau roof]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

In the bass, Clearly the 12" is lower and louder than the 8x10.
It's lighter and cheaper.

That graph shows that the 12" cab is more sensitive in the lows, not louder.

But the answer to the thread title is:

The bass [, effects,] and amp make the 8x10 do what it does.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

8 10 inch speakers gives you 80 inches of surface area moving air.

4 10s and a 15 gives you 55 inches of surface area.

10's react faster than a 15 so they sound punchier at close range. 15s being slower to respond sound woffier at close range.

Move your ear out about 20 - 30 feet and the waves have had time to fully develope and they will sound almost the same.

A 10" speaker doesn't mean it has 10 square inches of surface area- that's the diameter.

Here's a link with the formula for surface area and volume of a cone-

http://0.tqn.com/d/math/1/0/t/L/conerr.jpg

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Lets see:

Improper calculation of "surface area"

Surface area means NOTHING - it's displacement and sensitivity that matter

10's don't move/respond faster then 15's

If you had to go 20 - 30 feet out to hear bass waves develop, headphones would not work

By 'displacement', do you mean cone displacement? If so, surface are makes all the difference in the world- displacement is area x excursion.

[subbasshz]

my goodness this thread

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by 1958Bassman

By 'displacement', do you mean cone displacement? If so, surface are makes all the difference in the world- displacement is area x excursion.

yes, but excursion plays a huge role.

For example, an Eminence Delta 15a, a 15" driver, is spec'd at 233 cc displacement. Xmax is 2.7 mm.

The Eminence KappaLite 3010LF, a 10" driver, puts out 305 cc. Xmax is 8.5 mm.

And neither sound even remotely like the other due to efficiency, bandwidth, etc.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by Mugre

All the factors that define western music are based on mathematic principles that describe the physics of sound. The placement of your frets was described and defined by Pythagoras. Those same ratios that describe the harmonic series describe harmonic (chordal) theory. At one level of understanding, all that music is, is math. Music is not noise because it is structured instead of chaotic and structures can be measured and described mathematically. Therefore we can describe it, understand it and discern it from magic.

The above in no way connotes that I don't believe that music is also artistic expression and capable of magical sublimity.

mugre

Nice disclaimer.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by ThisBass

That's impossible.

It's not impossible- use a tone generator and send the signal to a bass amp and listen for yourself. Set the frequency to whatever frequency you want below 50Hz and you'll hear it. The problem with saying a speaker produces a particular frequency is that nothing is mentioned about that note's SPL, relative to the rest. It may do low E but if it's -20 or -30dB, it doesn't matter because it will be inaudible. In a sealed cabinet. more drivers makes the lowest frequencies audible and useful through acoustic coupling.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by sokolasty

Actually 8x10" is 8x~52 sq inch and 4x10"+1x15" is 4x~52sq inch + ~132 sq inch.

That's not even close- did you learn to calculate the area of a circle in school? A cone has more surface area than a flat circle.

[ThisBass]

Appro 50Hz there is zero sound reinforcement on my SVT 810.
Some Hz below 50Hz my 212 cab stops sound reinforcement, but fs of the drivers is 38Hz.


However my Klipsch Stereo cabs goes down to appro 38Hz, that's great.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

But your putting the chicken before the egg it seems.

We don't have frets placed in the position they are BECAUSE of math. No, people have played fretless long before, the math is just a tool for standardizing it in construction.

We're getting off subject because the debate was about the math in a speaker configurations. Anyho.

Music isn't formed because of math, music is formed and then translated into math because it makes it easier to share with others. Without math or numbers there would still be a beats per minute we just wouldn't have anything to call it. And there's no rule that says it has to stay cobsistant so there goes that math. As far as chord structures they sound good because of the ways the waves combine, we just use math to explain the waves.

Theory of relativity IS similar in that there are no hard facts, its all dependent on millions if things relative to the human.

The frets ARE in their positions because of math. It's possible to calculate the frequency of all notes in the "Equal-tempered scale" if you know just one note. The intervals between notes is known and that comes from math. The differences between the Equal Tempered scale and the ones that came before and after may be due to people thinking one sounds different or better, but part of our current musical notation, commonly used intervals, chords and scales is due to the church, like it or not.

Mods- I'm not mentioning this because I want it to be a comment for/against religion- I'm just bringing up an historical fact. If you want to delete this part, go ahead- I don't mean this to go against the rules.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by 1958Bassman

It's not impossible- use a tone generator and send the signal to a bass amp and listen for yourself. Set the frequency to whatever frequency you want below 50Hz and you'll hear it. The problem with saying a speaker produces a particular frequency is that nothing is mentioned about that note's SPL, relative to the rest. It may do low E but if it's -20 or -30dB, it doesn't matter because it will be inaudible. In a sealed cabinet. more drivers makes the lowest frequencies audible and useful through acoustic coupling.

most of what you hear is the 2nd and 3rd harmonic, so for a 4 stringer it's 80Hz and a 5er it's 60Hz. Well w/in what an 810 will take care of, and as you say, coupling of all those speakers definitely helps, that's one of the beauties of that design.

The other thing to keep in mind is that ported cabs (which the classic Ampeg 810 isn't) has the powerful f3 in comparison to the sealed.

But then the response drops like a rock after that.

Where the sealed have the advantage over the ported/tuned cabs is the better f10. Each has it's own "sound" and advantage and disadvantages. Just a matter of taste, neither is better or worse than the other in the grand scheme of things