What is the new trend with bass players using PA cabs?

[CL400Peavey]

Those that have them, gig them. They disperse sound so much better than a 410 or 810.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Are you guys that are using them gigging with them or is this more a home use movement?

Gigging. The design promotes even, wide dispersion in the mids and above, which makes them especially effective in live settings if you want people on stage to hear you, and even better out in the room if you need to fill the venue without PA support for the bass. They also go effectively lower than most productive cabs.

...and I didn't mention how utterly screamingly loud they can get. I use a 3000w power amp with mine. They're great at home if you don't mind damage to your home and belongings.

[Jeff Scott]

I gig with mine all the time.

[DukeLeJeune]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

So which builders products are the real deal and which ones are the bad copies?

I've gotten complaints from as far away as Australia about my bass cabs looking like PA cabs.

That's what you meant, isn't it??

;^)

[smeet]

Absolutely gigging with it. Very very nice, drummer and audience love it. Me too.

[Johnny Crab]

ACME's here and I do use Line 6 models(SVT, Bassman, and Acoustic 360 mainly). What I play is what I hear with full range cabs AND it is what "should" come out of FOH unless the soundman is making you "sound like everyone else" or like he/she thinks a bass should sound like.

When "forced" to run the signal into a 2x15 cabinet, it sounded like I had cotton in my ears as compared to using full range cabinets.

BTW, the ABSOLUTE BEST I've ever heard the setup I use sound at a semi-large hall was at San Marcos Music Theater(the crew there are THE BEST) which has JBL full range cabs as cross stage monitors. At FOH shows, I use a 12" kickback monitor with lows EQ'd out and let FOH do all of the heavy lifting.

[swspiers]

I bought mine for gigging as well. It sounds good in my basement at low volume, but for me this is the perfect tool I need on stage for the reasons already given: tone, portability, weight, dispersion and volume

[fokof]

Been using PA stuff exclusively for the last 15-20 years.

There is so many choice out there in active PA cabs.
Bad stuff but amazing stuff too.

With newer lightweight full range active stuff , it's sooooo much easier on the back than when I had to carry around my JBL cab and the Bryston 4B (In the 80's)

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

There isn't much difference between a bass cab and a PA cab anyway.
I know that 10 years ago I already played on active PA speakers and a SansAmp.

I was ready to go this route until I went out and tried a few Powered PA speakers. By the time I found one that could handle the low end well enough it cost as much as my MB III so I went with it. The new fad in these cabs is interesting but can set you back some some big bucks if you look into the prices on them.The other downsize is they are pretty ugly onstage IMO.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by bassbully

I was ready to go this route until I went out and tried a few Powered PA speakers. By the time I found one that could handle the low end well enough it cost as much as my MB III so I went with it. The new fad in these cabs is interesting but can set you back some some big bucks if you look into the prices on them.The other downsize is they are pretty ugly onstage IMO.

IMO, the typical mid price range powered PA cab most likely has woofer of lower quality than a good, standard production bass cab, and also a horn/tweeter that is voiced a bit too 'brightly' for most bass guitar applications, often with no attenuator.

All the mid-driver loaded (or low crossed over two way cabs with horns and high quality compression drivers like the Thunderchild) use some pretty high quality woofers (most use some variant of the mighty Eminence 3015LF or 3012LF), and the designers voiced the top end for bass guitar applications (Duke even puts a treble roll-off switch in his cabs to more emulate the sound of a one way cab, and Roger did quite a bit of smoothing of the upper mids in his crossover, and uses a very warm version of a mid driver, etc.).

IMO, as one who has been gigging these types of bass cabs on-and-off for the last 20 years, starting with the EA VL210, moving to the Acme Low B 210 stack, and now the Thunderchild (with a quick trial of a fEARful 15/6 in-between), the primary advantage of this sort of design is a deeper, more extended low end that is made possible by having a mid driver cover the frequencies typically handled by a more typical 'mid voiced' driver used in most production bass cabs. There is no free lunch. If you use a woofer that is designed more as a 'subwoofer', you give up sensitivity up top. That is the primary reason for the mid drivers in this class of cabs.

The 'dispersion' of the upper midrange is, IMO, a minor deal (not even mentioned by many of the manufacturers making these sorts of cabs). It is subtle, and only impacts a relatively narrow range of upper mids below the tweeter, and won't be noticable to many players, nor audience members. Surely a positive though, but a relatively small one relative to the increased low end that most players and audience members WILL notice. Remember that mid-range beaming starts at a relatively high frequency (above the top end of many classic bass tones), and is quite gradual). Once you hit the tweeter, it is a moot point.

HOWEVER, a deeper low end is a choice, and not particularly an abolute positive for all players. I actually prefer a high quality, 2 way cab with a tweeter, that provides a baked in tone that is punchy, full, and voiced with a bit of an upper mid dip that removes the unpleasant (IMO) gank from many basses in that frequency area, and also separates the tweeter from the driver just enough to allow the lower through upper treble to be distinguishable in the tone of the instrument.

So, great options, and every one of these executions (Thunderchild, fEARful, LDS/Patterson, BaerML112, Accugroove, I assume Barefaced (haven't hear Alex's version), Acme, etc. has their own tone profile. The sound of all these versions is just as diverse as the sound of various 212's or 410's by different manufacturers. So, talking about them as a single 'type' of design can be a bit misleading. None of them are particularly flat through their range (IMO and IME, Duke's Thunderchild and Andy's Acme three ways are the closest), and they all have their own 'baked in tone' like any other cab.

IMO!

[rpsands]

"lower quality" is a bit of a bad characterization. PA main woofers are almost inevitably designed for ~100hz on up production and to be crossed over to subwoofers before that.

These drivers sacrifice vD for sensitivity because vD is drastically less important above 100hz, and getting the characteristics required for good low end handling (low fs, high vd, highish q) requires sacrificing a lot of sensitivity.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by rpsands

"lower quality" is a bit of a bad characterization. PA main woofers are almost inevitably designed for ~100hz on up production and to be crossed over to subwoofers before that.

These drivers sacrifice vD for sensitivity because vD is drastically less important above 100hz, and getting the characteristics required for good low end handling (low fs, high vd, highish q) requires sacrificing a lot of sensitivity.

Good point.... +1. Really meant more about the low end response, as you more accurately describe above.

Very different from these 'LF" variant designs.

[seamonkey]

Real PA cabs have published measurements, frequency charts, polar charts, ... a complete set. The customers that use these demand it.

The woofer, mid, HF drivers are matched to give flat response. No attenuator is needed at the speaker. FOH Engineers need only worry about all the EQ before it hits the speaker.

Bass manufacturers may see FOH speakers, and build a look-alikes, but until they do all the measurements, matching of drivers, they are just look-alikes.

You pay enough money for the real deal, or look-alikes, might as well demand the same measurements.

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Are you guys that are using them gigging with them or is this more a home use movement?

Not really a PA-style cab (no tweeter), but I've been gigging fEARful 12/6 cabs exclusively for the past 2 years. I also supply them as bacline for multi-band events and have never had a complaint.

Originally Posted by KJung

The 'dispersion' of the upper midrange is, IMO, a minor deal (not even mentioned by many of the manufacturers making these sorts of cabs). It is subtle, and only impacts a relatively narrow range of upper mids below the tweeter, and won't be noticable to many players, nor audience members.

I respectfully disagree with this.
I very rarely have PA/monitor support, so my stage cab(s) need to carry the room and the entire stage.
12s beam like crazy over 1300 Hz. Crossing over well below that to a mid driver that doesn't beam until 2700 Hz might not make a very noticable to me at my position on stage, but it sure makes a big difference both to the rest of the band and out in the room.

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by wcriley

Not really a PA-style cab (no tweeter), but I've been gigging fEARful 12/6 cabs exclusively for the past 2 years. I also supply them as bacline for multi-band events and have never had a complaint.

So the bass-specific PA cabs don't have horns? Just a 12 inch and 6 inch speaker in them?

[wcriley]

Some have tweets (with or without horns); some don't.
I chose not to include a HF section in my cabs because I don't need anything much above about 5K.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by wcriley

I respectfully disagree with this.
I very rarely have PA/monitor support, so my stage cab(s) need to carry the room and the entire stage.
12s beam like crazy over 1300 Hz. Crossing over well below that to a mid driver that doesn't beam until 2700 Hz might not make a very noticable to me at my position on stage, but it sure makes a big difference both to the rest of the band and out in the room.

+1 in that if that slice of upper midrange is key to your tone, you will hear a bit more spread with a mid driver than just a woofer, especially near the cab on wide stage.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

So the bass-specific PA cabs don't have horns? Just a 12 inch and 6 inch speaker in them?

Dude. The majority of these are NOT bass specific PA cabs. They are three way bass cabs.

[rpsands]

I actually am finding that my normal tone doesn't really need that much dispersion, but it really comes through with distortion. Playing in the 3-piece I tend to scoop out a little bit in the guitar range and then have a bunch of dirt coming in where it blends with the guitar and fills up when he solos. Getting that dirt all around the room is a lot easier with the midrange driver.

The best example you can see of where this seriously impacts distortion is if you walk back and forth in front of a guy trying to carry the room with a guitar halfstack.

[wcriley]

The 1K - 2K range isn't always "key to my tone". I'm not a one-sound-fits-all guy.
But when I do decide to make serious use of those frequencies, I want everyone in the room to hear them pretty much the same as I hear them, rather than some people getting ice picks shoved in their ears, while others just hear the reflections and lower frequencies.