What is the new trend with bass players using PA cabs?

[Johnny Crab]

Which one of the 3-ways(Avatar, Fearfull, JBL, anyone?) will remove the soundman from the equation when you walk out and hear your growly, clangy, gut-punching sound reduced to a pedestrian, boombox bass tone in the FOH?

The last few FOH gigs got me disappointed with simply giving FOH folks a DI and me using my kickback monitor. The main guy at the Firehouse(Houston) and the folks at San Marcos Music Theater were the only ones to let the FOH deliver what I was giving them. The rest of them reduced me to "what they think a bass should sound like" .

I am tempted to bring a VERY capable rig to shows and give FOH the Motorhead treatment(decibels) if I walk out and hear something that is not my tone on stage. Likewise, I'd leave it idling if I go out and hear good FOH.

Thanks.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

I am tempted to bring a VERY capable rig to shows and give FOH the Motorhead treatment(decibels) if I walk out and hear something that is not my tone on stage. Likewise, I'd leave it idling if I go out and hear good FOH.

Thanks.

+1, this is what I'm building towards, I've learned there's very few FOH guys who are willing to work w/you to get your desired bass tone out in the house. Almost there......

[Stinsok]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

Peavey-licious

I have heard, played through, been with pickers that used just about everything in that pic.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by Stinsok

I have heard, played through, been with pickers that used just about everything in that pic.

and I'll bet 90% or more of that gear pictured is still running

[JLS]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh... no kiddin'!

[DJ Bebop]

Originally Posted by Earache

I use a Carvin 973 with an Ampeg Micro-vr for home use and sometimes rehearsal. The sound is truly delightful. For years I thought it was a PA cab.

I kinda wish that they would have kept that cab.
I went for the RL6815 years latter. While I like the 2x8 and tweeter part, I found the size of the cab for the 15 lacking.

No fault on their part so much as this thing was supposed to be a combo amp.

Still have it and rock it, only with a BX1500 head though.

http://www.carvinmuseum.com/images/y...lops-small.jpg

Carvin.com : BX1500 LIGHTWEIGHT 1500W BASS AMP HEAD

[DJ Bebop]

Then there is the Peavey 1820 x 2 cabs that I still have that we won't talk about

[tuckomf]

Originally Posted by will33

My first experience using a "PA cab for bass" was plugging into something like this at a rehearsal room because it was there and I didn't have to bring my own stuff. I did one of these.

Never had I heard my bass so good, all the detail and all over the room. I knew nothing about speakers at the time or why this was happening but I'll never forget that sound. And of course, the stuff available now could stomp all over it, but at rehearsal volume, it was clear bass all over the place.

I'm currently running an Ampeg PF-500 through two similar cabinets. 15" driver, 15" horn, and a tweeter. I bought the portaflex as a combo and ended up returning the cabinet. It's weird hanging your head in shame and smiling at the same time.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

Which one of the 3-ways(Avatar, Fearfull, JBL, anyone?) will remove the soundman from the equation when you walk out and hear your growly, clangy, gut-punching sound reduced to a pedestrian, boombox bass tone in the FOH?

The last few FOH gigs got me disappointed with simply giving FOH folks a DI and me using my kickback monitor. The main guy at the Firehouse(Houston) and the folks at San Marcos Music Theater were the only ones to let the FOH deliver what I was giving them. The rest of them reduced me to "what they think a bass should sound like" .

I am tempted to bring a VERY capable rig to shows and give FOH the Motorhead treatment(decibels) if I walk out and hear something that is not my tone on stage. Likewise, I'd leave it idling if I go out and hear good FOH.

Thanks.

I always make it a point to tell FOH guys what type of bass mix I/we favor if I think they're screwing me. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't, especially if I'm not the one directly paying them. In the end, you have to put your trust in them and hope for the best. But believe me, bro...I know exactly what you're going through!

[will33]

Originally Posted by tuckomf

It's weird hanging your head in shame and smiling at the same time.

You get used to it, and after a while, you don't care what people think..

[amimbari]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

I was thinking about giving these a try for my bass rig, what do y'all think?

you left out the "mids" part of the stack in your picture


.
someday someone from CL will come over and get that old heavy junk out of my house even though it all still works but hasn't seen a real gig for 20 years

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by amimbari

you left out the "mids" part of the stack in your picture


.
someday someone from CL will come over and get that old heavy junk out of my house even though it all still works but hasn't seen a real gig for 20 years

Nice bass rig!

[ClayBones]

Just about anything that can move alot of air (I'm talking drivers) can be turned into a bass cab. All you need is someone who knows the physics involved.

[Joebone]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Are you guys that are using them gigging with them or is this more a home use movement?

Not gigging often enuf, but the glory of my audiokinesis cab is far more evident on the gig than at home! Killer projection for my bandmates and into the room, without having to be too loud. It's almost too good to be true.

Seriously, lose the oversized old-school flap-your-trousers bins, and dare to find out what you really sound like!

[Oobly]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

I am tempted to bring a VERY capable rig to shows and give FOH the Motorhead treatment(decibels) if I walk out and hear something that is not my tone on stage.

fEARful 1515/66/1 (or 15/6/1 and 15sub) and a 3kW power amp, just ask BurningSkies..

I only have a 15/6/1 and 1050W amp, so I can only imagine how loud that rig could go, but judging by how loud my rig is...... earthquake level.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by Oobly

fEARful 1515/66/1 (or 15/6/1 and 15sub) and a 3kW power amp, just ask BurningSkies..

I only have a 15/6/1 and 1050W amp, so I can only imagine how loud that rig could go, but judging by how loud my rig is...... earthquake level.

The cool thing is that most soundguys don't complain about the bass level because it's so clear and clean and "PA" and its even all over the room. Last friday's gig I had my attenuators set to about 10 o'clock and was pretty f'ing loud. It was great fun.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

The cool thing is that most soundguys don't complain about the bass level because it's so clear and clean and "PA" and its even all over the room. Last friday's gig I had my attenuators set to about 10 o'clock and was pretty f'ing loud. It was great fun.

Seems strange. The primary issue that sound pro's have with backline bass is that it is too loud, hence they can't control the mix of the band. The professional sound people I work with (pretty high end) would NEVER want a stage sound louder than the front of house. I typically actually point my cab across the stage so there is no bleed.

Also, 'even out in the room' is a relative thing', since the only real advantage of the mid driver is above 1K or so and below where a tweeter would kick in (around 3K on my cabs), where there is very little bass energy. Not really much of an advantage over a horizontal 212, and depending on the tweeter crossover point and the amount of upper midrange in your tone, a relatively minor advantage over a 410 for most. The 'meat' of most bass tones is not really impacted regarding dispersion issues.

I guess is you are dealing with STUPID loud stage sound and no front of house, a massive rig would make sense. Thank gosh I haven't been in that situation since my teen age garage band days!

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by KJung

Seems strange. The primary issue that sound pro's have with backline bass is that it is too loud, hence they can't control the mix of the band. The professional sound people I work with (pretty high end) would NEVER want a stage sound louder than the front of house. I typically actually point my cab across the stage so there is no bleed.

Also, 'even out in the room' is a relative thing', since the only real advantage of the mid driver is above 1K or so and below where a tweeter would kick in (around 3K on my cabs), where there is very little bass energy. Not really much of an advantage over a horizontal 212, and depending on the tweeter crossover point and the amount of upper midrange in your tone, a relatively minor advantage over a 410 for most. The 'meat' of most bass tones is not really impacted regarding dispersion issues.

I guess is you are dealing with STUPID loud stage sound and no front of house, a massive rig would make sense. Thank gosh I haven't been in that situation since my teen age garage band days!

You're just a 'high end' guy, Ken.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

What is the new trend with bass players using PA cabs? I'm seeing this more and more where bass cab builders are building what appear to be PA speakers and calling them bass cabs. Are a lot of people using these now? What is the draw of that?

Here is an example of one:

TB153* BASS CABINET

Carvin also makes a couple, but they still call them PA speakers for now:

Carvin.com : LS1503 800W 15 INCH 3-WAY MAIN SPEAKER

Although I just saw a thread where someone saw them being called a bass cab in the latest Carvin catalog. What's going on with this?

A new trend?
That's been going on for quite a few years as far as I know.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

You're just a 'high end' guy, Ken.

When I do run into front of house as a freelancer, it is pretty first rate. For all the other gigs, I'm just like everyone else. As with most, I would never need to be louder than an unmic'd drummer when there is no backline support, and with decent technique, it is amazing how little of a rig you need to carry the room.

And, again, just as another point of reference for others reading this, the mid driver cabs do not have 'better dispersion' in general, only in a slice of upper midrange above 1K or so and below the tweeter. If that tonal area is key to you tone (like the 'bright distortion guys' for example that grind up there) it can be a meaningful benefit. For others, it is literally a non-issue.

That all being said, I have not run into a sound person who thought is was a positive in any way to have backline sound of any sort out in the room.