What should I switch out my Avatar Neo 410 for?

[NineSpine]

I'm thinking of getting rid of my Neo 410 and getting either the 153 or the 212. I wanted to know if someone could give me an idea of what kind of difference I would see for both of those cabs. I play a PJ, I often use a lot of effects (reverb, chorus, delay, octave, OD) so my sound can sometimes be very dense, and my band does material that is very doomy/heavy and material that is very open and airy where I play a lot of lead melodies and chords, sometimes up in guitar range with an octave up effect. My guitarist tunes to B but I play in standard, so I need to compete with that.

[craig.p]

The 212 would sound as dark or possibly darker than the 410.

The 153 will lift the veil that your 410 is imposing.

Longer term, you might want to consider a biamp setup (crossover and two power amps) with a 212 or 210 guitar cab handling the top end. Why? Because the small midrange in the 153 can do only so much, though it will significantly improve things over either the 410 or the 212.

Hope this helps.

[NineSpine]

Originally Posted by craig.p

The 212 would sound as dark or possibly darker than the 410.

The 153 will lift the veil that your 410 is imposing.

Longer term, you might want to consider a biamp setup (crossover and two power amps) with a 212 or 210 guitar cab handling the top end. Why? Because the small midrange in the 153 can do only so much, though it will significantly improve things over either the 410 or the 212.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, that sounds like about what I was expecting. My main problem with the 410 is how it just seems to pop out too much without giving me any definition, and the off-axis sound is radically different than on-axis.

Do you think it would serve me better to look into a 3-way with a 12 instead?

[craig.p]

It's a good question, but, considering the entire range bass cabs have to cover, and the volume they have to do it at, I can't see replacing a quad of tens with a single twelve, no matter how long its piston stroke. Now... a pair of three-way twelves might make sense -- as long as we're talking long-travel bass drivers.

[NineSpine]

Are there any good three ways with a twelve besides fearful?

[craig.p]

How 'bout a decent pair of 3-way fifteens?

Here.

You would get TWO miidranges, TWO fifteens, and those fifteens are not long-travel jobs that suffer from limited range. My guess is that the bottom end would approximate what you're getting from your current 410, but the mids would open way up and permit your effects work to pop right out. Only downside I can think of is that the horn might reveal any noise in your signal chain; I believe the horn level is preset, i.e. non-adjustable.

[Liam Wald]

I have a B153 and a B210. That combo works real well for me.

[craig.p]

Check out this monster.

[mattplaysdabass]

Originally Posted by NineSpine

Are there any good three ways with a twelve besides fearful?

The Barefaced Big Baby is a good alternative, especially with the big baby sub

[ErnieD]

Originally Posted by craig.p

Check out this monster.

Wonder how that MB cab would compare with my 4 ohm, TB153? I'd never seen that Mesa cab before is that a new model or a real old school cab from back in the day? Then agian, I rarely keep up with Mesa cabs that's why I don't know.

To OP, I use my TB153 at many small-med nite club gigs with STM-900 and Am St P5. That combination just kills in those type rooms. Folks say they can feel the bass punchin em in their seats.

But I still use my Epifani UL410/BBE-pre/Crown amp, in a couple huge bars where I know that cab will fill the room, no PA support for me. But I plan to try the TB153/900 in one of those large rooms next weekend to see how it hangs. Can you get a new cab and still keep the B410 for awhile to see what you prefer?

[craig.p]

Ernie, on that Mesa cab, I believe that's legacy stuff. My guess is that the TB153 would go louder and deeper in the bass but that the Mesa would clean its clock from low mids all the way up to high treble, unless Mesa totally buggered the engineering of the thing, which I doubt. But I must yield to the Mesa experts here, 'cause what I know about Mesa products would fit inside a thimble and rattle around like a BB.

[craig.p]

Did a little searching on that Mesa cab. It might be two separate halves. NineSpine, if you're considering this thing, make sure you fully understand its configuration beforehand. Sounds like this might not be such a hot idea unless you're (at least) biamping, 'cause you don't want to run that fifteen and the lot in the top half in the same frequency range. I'd like to poke around inside one just to see what's inside the top half of that cab for crossover components.

[ErnieD]

I'm so out of the loop on MB and many other cabs. I don't even know what you mean by their "legacy" line , or even if that's specific to MB cabs.

I do like my TB153 for the rooms I've used it at so far. I'm about to install some casters on it to make it more portable as I currently move it about with a folding hand cart.

Just thought I'd ask about that MB cab, as from that pic, its an interesting looking cab. But wonder how heavy it is? Again, just interesting looking, I do like that it looks to offer very good mids from its' design.

[hobbes1]

hi. i own and will probably sell in the near future, one of the Mesa Boogie 1516B cabs. i have not owned the avatar 153 but i can say that the 1516 is very loud, very deep and has a full sound across the entire frequency range. i keep the highs attenuated on the cab a little and i run an M-Pulse 360 head into it. only reason i'd sell it, having owned it for 13 years, is i play mostly with full PA support now, IEM's or just need a wedge or two on the stage. i don't really need stage volume like that anymore. so, to recap, don't be so sure the avatar will outperform something like the 1516 until you could chance to hear it in action
only downside with the MB cab is it's heavy....quite heavy but is on casters.

[NineSpine]

I'm leaning towards just getting two 153s at this point.

[ErnieD]

If there'd be a good cause for Avatar to offer just a 15" sub cab to go with the TB153? Not sure the idea would work design or function wise. Or if the 3015LF is even available anymore to even consider such a build.

I think I saw where there is a single 15" sub cab to go with the 15/6 fEarful, I believe. So maybe one of those subs would work w/TB153. For me, I'd want it in a 4 ohm version.

But if its possible Avatar Co. would make one, I'd likely buy one to go with my TB cab.

[craig.p]

How 'bout a TB153-DM (dual midrange). In other words, get that horn/tweeter out of there and replace it with a second mid. I believe it would be far more useful for the majority of players than coverage above 4K or wherever it is that that horn/tweeter wakes up.



Also no need to have the cab builder carry two stock items (standard baffle and reverse baffle). One baffle style would do it. Well, not perfect, but when stacked with the top cab upside-down at least you'd get one mid pair on each side.

Or this, to keep the mid cones together. Would require flipped baffle for pairing, and I expect the fifteen would need to be relocated.



I'd actually like to see ALL Avatar's tweeters replaced by mids, with whatever changes are necessary in the crossover.

[Lublin]

The Avatar Neo 410 is a great sounding cab and is wonderfully light. I own one.

[ErnieD]

I could see where that might be more useful overall. I dial my tweeter down below 9:00 or less on my cab. So I thought a sub 15" cab would be one way to go. But I do like your idea better.

I continue to only use my GB STM-900 head with this cab and lately I've been backing off the bass knob as I've found some real nice punch n bit o' grind, using the Freq @600 and bass knob now at less than 9:00.

For awhile there I was really dialing up the bass knob, 1:00-2:00 to feel those big lows in this cab and quite nice at that. But this new setting is really giving me a fun tone since I pulled the flats off my P5 and installed new 8250's. I just figured a sub 15" would bring back back some of those sub-lows I was doing for awhile. Though I'd never pretend to understand all that's involved with cab design/functions as well as many others around here. Just know what I like to hear.

Seems I'm still learning this 900 head. But its making me leave my 3 other micro heads at home; regardless of what cab(s) I'm now using. And mainly it's the TB153. That was not the case for a good while there.

[lokikallas]

I just got to gig with my pair of 153s this weekend. It's like butta. Full, rich, smooth, clear, tight. I melted the ladies asses! I am only going to bring the pair for gigs and use the bottom cab only for rehearsal.