What is this thing?

Gaolee · #1 09-30-2010, 04:45 PM

I picked up a cabinet with a serial number plate on the back which says it was made by Borge Systems, Inc. in New Jersey. When I got it, I was told it had a Cetec Gauss speaker in it, but that was all the information I have. The speaker is a 15 inch, and the cabinet is enormous. The speaker is front firing, but the cabinet is vented from the back in the form of a folded horn. It is extremely well made, as far as I can tell, and the horn is not just an angled piece but curved. It sounds great and projects sound just like I expected, but I'm curious to know if anybody has any more information about who Borge Systems might have been, when it might have been made, or what it was intended as when it was made. The serial number is just over 2000, so either they made at least 2000 cabinets or they started numbering somewhere other than 0001. Whoever they were, they left no trace I can find.

It is the bottom cabinet in this stack.

RickenBoogie · #2 09-30-2010, 04:57 PM

Looks like an old PA sub, but I don't really have a clue.

shoot-r · #3 09-30-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Looks like an old PA sub, but I don't really have a clue.

+1...
Band I worked with years ago had 4 of those monsters.
Ours were built by C.V. Lloyde Sound in Champaign, Illinois.
They were P.A. subs available with either Gauss or J.B.L. speakers.

1n3 · #4 09-30-2010, 05:16 PM

It's a rear-loaded horn, more often referred to as a scoop. If you google for "bass scoop", you'll find quite a bit of info.

They don't go real low because the horn isn't long enough, and they have a big response dip where the waves from the horn and the speaker arrive 180° of phase. Usually happens around 100hz, if I recall correctly. An outdated design, IMO.

ninepoundjammer · #5 09-30-2010, 05:19 PM

Fascinating. I have a TL-606 cabinet that looks very similar in construction to yours. Note in particular the handles:

Identify this old cab

I haven't been able to figure out much about it other than it being built to TL-606 specs.

Gaolee · #6 09-30-2010, 05:34 PM

Interesting. The information I have found about the Gauss 4580 speaker in it is that it's probably worth more than I paid for the whole cabinet since it is in close to perfect condition, but it isn't the ideal bass speaker, either. The whole assembly works pretty well, though. Maybe the big cabinet is really just a heavy, ferocious looking stand for the 410 and head. I don't really know how any of it works, but I can say it sounds very good as an assembly and seems to be able to cut through some pretty loud guitars without turning up the head's volume very much.

Gaolee · #7 09-30-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninepoundjammer

Fascinating. I have a TL-606 cabinet that looks very similar in construction to yours. Note in particular the handles:

Identify this old cab

I haven't been able to figure out much about it other than it being built to TL-606 specs.

Your mongrel monster looks like it's got the same kind of story as my mongrel monster. Beats me what's inside mine, because I have never taken it apart, but the cabinet weighs more than 100 lbs. I have to really work to get it in and out of the van!

BassmanPaul · #8 09-30-2010, 06:04 PM

It's an amalgam of flesh and the machine. Very difficult to kill if it has made contact with the collective.

Blues Bass 2 · #9 09-30-2010, 09:10 PM

Like 1n3 says it's a rear loaded folded horn . JBL had one like this and also a double 15" model . Gets the rear loaded name because the rear end of the cone loads the sound to the horn unlike front loaded folded horns like the old Acoustic 360 cabs where the horn is loaded by the front of the cone . The rear loaded folded horns were considered short throw and were popular in the disco scene in the late 70's . Folded horns have come a long way since then but those old designs have some thump to them .

T-Bird · #10 09-30-2010, 11:17 PM

Hi.

Like others have said, a JBL inspired scoop. Plenty of information on the net.

Here's mine, loaded with a Celestion:

Not very good combination with a 410 (or any other cab without a good cross-over). Elevates any cab to a perfect level though

Regards
Sam

Gaolee · #11 10-05-2010, 03:52 PM

Whether or not it is the ideal setup, it sure makes plenty of noise. It can complete with three really loud guitarists without being turned clear up. No cross-over for either cabinet. I just plug 'em both into separate jacks in the head and let 'em do their thing.

By the way, my "compensation stack" looks a whole lot like yours, T-Bird, and I play a T-Bird through it. The 'Bird rumbles the floor just fine when backed by this thing and it sounds great for music which doesn't require a whole lot of high end. It sounds a bit raspy and harsh if the treble is cranked, but I play the bass, so screw treble.

MAMMOTHvolume · #12 10-05-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaolee

Interesting. The information I have found about the Gauss 4580 speaker in it is that it's probably worth more than I paid for the whole cabinet since it is in close to perfect condition, but it isn't the ideal bass speaker, either. The whole assembly works pretty well, though. Maybe the big cabinet is really just a heavy, ferocious looking stand for the 410 and head. I don't really know how any of it works, but I can say it sounds very good as an assembly and seems to be able to cut through some pretty loud guitars without turning up the head's volume very much.

probably cuts better because its up near ear height

1n3 · #13 10-05-2010, 06:12 PM

Mixing full-range cabs is always a crapshoot, but I can imagine how these cabs could work well together. Found this brochure for the old (and often copied) JBL scoops:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/L...nclosures2.pdf

They've got good kick in the 60-100hz region. Looks like the dip is higher than I remembered; maybe 150-170hz. A 410 with a mid-bass hump might complement a scoop fairly well in that region. Loud? I'd bet. A lot of weight to schlep, but if you dig it, more power to ya.