What Types of Venues Don't Offer PA Support?

[KingRazor]

This could be better suited to the Live Sound forum, but it applies here as well, IMO.

Those of you who gig regularly: What types of venues have you been to where you didn't have your bass going through a PA at all?

And

At those kinds of venues, what kind of rig do you tend to use, and how do you set it up generally to allow both you and the audience to hear the bass clearly?

Edit: Sorry, I should clarify. I'm not asking about venues that have no PA at all, just ones where there is no bass in the PA.

[SteveHeissner]

We don't gig without a PA and soundman period. However, we practice without one and I can certify that on those occassions we sound like sh#$.

[HolmeBass]

For me, it's always small venues that don't want loud music anyway: cafes, wineries, small restaurants. So ironically we do bring a PA, but that's just for the vocals, and I'll often use my smallest rig- a 1x12 with a 180 W amp (Eden WTX-260 into Eden D112XLT).

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by SteveHeissner

We don't gig without a PA and soundman period. However, we practice without one and I can certify that on those occassions we sound like sh#$.

What about venues that have a PA, but not one that could handle having the bass in it? (like ones where only the vocals are put in the PA)

[father of fires]

BECAUSE THERE IS NO PA!!!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

What types of venues have you been to where you didn't have your bass going through a PA at all?

The ones that don't pay well. Invariably if they pay less than $100 a man you're expected to provide your own PA, because they can't afford one. If they pay more than $200 a man chances are they have PA. But even those that have PA don't necessarily have a good PA.

[KJung]

My guess, about 95% of venues provide no PA support, if you include the entire populations of gigs.

Most of the highest paid work (freelance casuals) NEVER have PA supplied, and rarely does a band of that type put bass through the PA. The zillions of gigs in restaurants and many small clubs have no PA.

If you are a bar band, you are probably at around 50% of venues having some sort of PA, although many are not really capable of handling the bass.. more just for vocals and horns.

Of course, if you are playing originals in 'listening type clubs', there will usually be a sound person and PA, and you will usually play for the door.

The only times that I have good PA support are the large corporate gigs, and those PA's are a thing of beauty.

IME. It all depends what types of gigs you do.

To answer your question about a backline rig, it just needs to be sized for the room. A typical 410 or 212 with 500 watts or so is enough to cover most clubs and privates nicely with no PA support assuming the band is playing at a professional level (i.e., playing to the volume set by an unmic'd drummer).

[wcriley]

In my little corner of the universe, bands are almost always expected to supply their own SR system. I can count the number of "supplied" systems I've used in 40 years of bar gigs on my fingers.

[lomo]

I live in a small town where we play mostly parties and small bars. None of these places has a PA. We bring ours for vox and partial drums, with bass and guitars usually going direct. Like Bill says, these are gigs that pay low......befitting our amateur talent level

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The ones that don't pay well. Invariably if they pay less than $100 a man you're expected to provide your own PA, because they can't afford one. If they pay more than $200 a man chances are they have PA. But even those that have PA don't necessarily have a good PA.

That's basically it.

Sad truth: At some venues, you're on your own, and if you're only the transistor radio in the corner, oh well. Too many venue owners and managers don't understand or appreciate the importance of good entertainment and sound reinforcement.

That being said, there are dive bars in the Denver area that have outstanding PA systems and competent sound people running them. These "holes in the wall" have an excellent reputation for high-quality entertainment and sound, and they pack 'em in and sell out the PBR every night.

EDIT: As for "no bass in the PA," my rule of thumb is, if the kick drum is not through the PA, neither am I, and I won't overpower the drummer (even though I bring 2X15).

[BartmanPDX]

I gig 5-6 nights/month in the Portland area, mostly in small bars and such. Around here, most of the time we provide the PA, which is fine by me because we have it set up so we can get going quickly, and we almost always have great sound. A few places have their own PA but usually no sound guy.

In all of these small clubs, we run vocals only through the PA whether it is our PA or theirs. It's very easy to get too loud in a rock band in these small clubs, even when you're just a three piece plus vocals. My rig (Mesa M9 + Bergantino AE212) easily carries the room. By running it just through my rig (not the PA), I'm standing in the place where the bass is loudest, so it's plenty loud in the mix for me without dominating the room. Lots of stuff bleeds through the mics as well -- guitar, bass, drums. We never have a problem filling a room with sound and often get compliments on how great the mix is. Our biggest complaint is that it sometimes gets too loud for the places we play. I have no need to send my bass through the PA.

When we're playing the big outdoor festivals, PA and sound guys are provided and I run either a DI and/or mic my cab.

[JimmyM]

I do a little restaurant old-time jazz gig once a week on upright when my regular band isn't working, and I use an Ampeg BA108. I have done occasional theater gigs where the band didn't go through the PA...these are mostly at Century Village complexes and similar. And some of those theaters are pretty big. But surprisingly enough, I have pulled off theater gigs in front of as many as 800 people using a B-15N and one 115 cab. Sounded great, too.

[BassBob1]

I have been out of a band that plays regularly for almost a year now. But pretty much all of 2010 I was in an originals band that could be categorized as a jam band I guess (we did cover some songs). We only had PA support for everything at maybe a handful of gigs. One was a festival put on by our college radio station, another was a pretty prominent venue in town, others were several repeated bar gigs that actually had a really nice PA and stage set up for how crappy the rest of the bar was. Our other gigs were mostly partys (many of which we threw) and several outdoor festivals. Now these outdoor festivals weren't music festivals. They were mostly township organized events with live music. The only vocals got PA support.
You really can't beat good PA support but IME it isn't necessary to get a good sound out of your band (I'm generalizing of coarse). Without PA it's simply more important to get everyones levels as close to perfect as you can. Here is a video of a performance I did last year with a band that was pretty much just thrown together. It was a campus event and only the vocals and keyboard got PA support. (no vocals in the song though) It was recorded with a MXR usb condenser mic and garage band. In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed - Cover - YouTube

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by wcriley

In my little corner of the universe, bands are almost always expected to supply their own SR system. I can count the number of "supplied" systems I've used in 40 years of bar gigs on my fingers.

I have got to agree though there have been a few more than ten that did have a PA.

[s_mcsleazy]

ive never played a venue without pa support. ive played venues without bass amps but never without pa

[bmc]

Every gig I have played in the past 10 years as been without PA support. There are not many clubs that provide house systems.

We use Eon with 1-15 on poles for vocals. Almost all venues are small with the largest capacity around 200 people, Depending on the room, or venue, I`m usined either a Markbass head an an SWR 1-15. The guitars use 40 watt Fender combos.

More than enough volume and no need for bigger gear. I freelance mostly and the guys do have large PA`s but they have never been used.

As for it reflecting lower paid gigs, that`s not the cae over here. I won`t take my bass out of it`s case for less than $300 a guy. Most gigs are $400-500 per guy. That`s often more than the local musicans get. We`ve all been at this for 20+ years and some of the guys are full time musicians.

Depending on the music you play, and the size of the rooms, smaller set ups can work very well for you.

[will33]

Private parties, Winery's, local dives.

In our case, the 2 former no PA gigs pay pretty well, the latter not so much.

You bring more rig, aim it at center audience, turn it up to wherever you can get the drums and vocals to. EQ it for the audience, not yourself.

Oh, and BYOPA. If your's is hearty enough to run bass through, the rig is back to being a non-issue off stage.

[NKBassman]

All the gigs I've played with limited PA (usually just vocals and maybe kick drum) have been community or youth centers.

There's a few other venues around here that don't provide PA for the instruments, but they're usually tiny holes that don't need full PA power anyway.

[nysbob]

I play a lot of gigs with no PA support, but seldom have people say they can't hear me.

I use either an an all tube Ampeg V4B or SVT through a pair of JBL 15"s. Fills a room nicely without being obnoxious.

[jnewmark]

I would say 99% of my gigs do not have PA, so we bring our own.