what would you consider loud? also help me choose an amp head!

[ghostjs]

i hear people saying for example that 450W at 4 ohm is not very loud. i currently play small-medium gigs (and will be playing and outdoor gig in december) and i fear that when i invest in a new amp it wont be "loud enough". i own a Peavey TNT 150 made in the late 80's and its decent loud for 150W at 4 ohms.. so is 300-500W a good number for the shows i'm doing?

i need to upgrade soon and as i said i'm afraid of buying an underpowered amp so what would you say is loud enough? im playing hard rock and my amp is playing almost at its limit and i had a few ideas on what i wanted but after reading some posts i need some guidance!

my choices are:
Ampeg B2RE with a matching 4X10 cab
Acoustic B600 with a matching 4X10 cab
Hartke 3500C with a matching 4X10 cab
Gallien-Krueger Goldline 500 and 4X10 cab

im really hoping the ampeg is loud and full of tone like most are, but i heard its "not loud"... so any help owners and experiences?

[IvanMike]

tnt amps are great and loud. to get louder you'll probably need 400 watts or so and an efficient cab or two. lots of options. how loud do you need to get? what types of music, what other instruments?

[rptrsn2]

GK but not the gold line, check out the 700rbii, 480w but you'd think alot more, it gets loud as hell. i run mine with an avatar 210 and a peavey 115 but check the avatar 410. avatars are easily altered to use the biamp on the gk rb heads with great results. and your whole rig is U.S made. @ IvanMike wish i was when the area,do alot of that around here and love,would love to help.

[ghostjs]

im currently playing hard rock stuff and the tnt is great but my guitarist is upgrading soon. im really interested in the Ampeg but it it loud enough with a 4X10 to fill a room or play outdoors??

[rptrsn2]

have used all the heads you listed except the goldline and the 700rbii is by far louder IMO. i don,t know about the gold line heads but find the cabs to be too bright sounding. if you are set on the ones you listed my choice would be the hartke by far.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by ghostjs

im currently playing hard rock stuff and the tnt is great but my guitarist is upgrading soon. im really interested in the Ampeg but it it loud enough with a 4X10 to fill a room or play outdoors??

under most circumstances, yes.