What would you do?

[BWileyTally]

Scenario:

We are preparing to begin gigging in about 3 months. We have an extremely loud drummer, 3 guitarists, each pushing around 100 watts. I just crapped out my practice amp (Fender Rumble 30, no where near enough volume) Time to upgrade. I already purchased my head. I've narrowed down my cabs to a final 3.

* drum roll please.....*

My amp head: Carvin r1000

My cabinets: To be determined.

I figure on at least a 410 at 8-ohm for upgrading when needed. This will allow my amp to push out 700 watts at 8-ohm bridged.

My budget, around $300-$450.

Options:
-Carvin 410 (ebay for $299 + $49 new) 8-ohm.
-Acoustic 810 $300 (no shipping) CraigsList (I already checked them out and talked him from $375 down to $300) but at 4-ohm.
-Avatar 212 Ceramic $389 + $55. 8-ohm

Should I be hesitant on the 810? It is rather large and bulky to lug around everywhere. I'm planning on a modular rig, but is this too good to pass up, or should I let it pass and go with a 410? Any other options for said amount? My area is pretty lame on Craigslist postings and I've been watching daily for a month.

[rodl2005]

I'd go either a Carvin 410, Avatar 212 & add on later.

[BWileyTally]

Originally Posted by rodl2005

I'd go either a Carvin 410, Avatar 212 & add on later.

I'm thinking along those lines as well, with money being the issue the Carvin would be my first choice, however, is the Acoustic 810 a really awesome price that I should jump on? Being new to bass and all that it entails I have no idea the value of these. In an earlier post someone said $300 is a good price for an acoustic 810. I'm leaning toward Carvin myself.

[will33]

What model of Carvin 410? The older ps10 speakers sound quite different than the newer neo ones, the newer ones being the better of the 2. The older carvin redline and V410's were punchy and loud in the mids but lacked in the bass dept.

[will33]

$300 is a good price for ANY 810 that works but Acoustic is budget stuff, the other 2 will be better quality. Plus you'd have the option of bringing one cab when that's enough instead of dragging around 810's when you only need 4.

[CL400Peavey]

As I said in the other thread, you will get the volume out of the bigger cab. Go to a guitar center and try one out, see how loud and how it sounds. If you have the vehicle to transport the 810, I think its easier to move than two separate cabs.

Ymmv

[BWileyTally]

Non-neo Carvin. My main concern is being loud enough. But apparently that won't be an issue according to others Any noticeable differances in volume between the 410 and the 212? The 410 will have roughly 75-85 sq inches more speaker area (no need for correction, just a rough est.), I guess this is a better deal as far as volume goes right.

[bassgod0dmw]

I'd pass on the 810 as well. I'd look at 410's or 212's for what you describe. The 410 may be a little bit louder due to the surface area, but that really depends on other factors as well.

Of those you've mentioned, I'd go with the Avatar. Or look in the classifieds section and find something in your price range. I'm not sure how tight the money is and I hate to even say it since you already told us what you want to spend, but for just a little bit more you can probably find quite a few other options, like Aguilar for example, in the classifieds.

[BWileyTally]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

As I said in the other thread, you will get the volume out of the bigger cab. Go to a guitar center and try one out, see how loud and how it sounds. If you have the vehicle to transport the 810, I think its easier to move than two separate cabs.

Ymmv

Yep, you made up my mind for me. 810 it is. Gonna text him to hold on to it for a week or so till I get enough cash. Thanks again.

[bongomania]

If you can manage hauling the big cab, then get the 4 ohm big cab. It will give you MUCH more loudness than the other options. If you can't haul the 810, then I'd go with the Avatar 212 for now, as a good start to a modular rig you can build on.

[scottfeldstein]

Let us know how it turns out.

Me, I'd have gone for the 410. I probably would be happier with the 212, but it won't be loud enough. Perhaps not even with a second 212 to stack on top of it. The 810 is lowest quality of the bunch and will not give you the flexibility of just bringing half a stack like a pair of 410s would. I'd get the 410 and look for another used 410 as soon as I had the money.

I do have some sad news for you, though. Even eight 10" speakers driven by 350w @ 4 Ohms can easily be totally buried by one single guitar player and his 100w 4x12 half stack. Easily. Blown away. See ya. Oh, were you playing? I couldn't hear you because you were totally killed by that guitar player's amp.

Of course guitar players are being ridiculous playing at such volumes. Even in guitar-driven genres. Even in large venues. Good luck getting anyone to turn down, though. Been there, done it, got the hearing loss to prove it.

Use ear protection. Every time. Seriously.

[BWileyTally]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Let us know how it turns out.

Me, I'd have gone for the 410. I probably would be happier with the 212, but it won't be loud enough. Perhaps not even with a second 212 to stack on top of it. The 810 is lowest quality of the bunch and will not give you the flexibility of just bringing half a stack like a pair of 410s would. I'd get the 410 and look for another used 410 as soon as I had the money.

I do have some sad news for you, though. Even eight 10" speakers driven by 350w @ 4 Ohms can easily be totally buried by one single guitar player and his 100w 4x12 half stack. Easily. Blown away. See ya. Oh, were you playing? I couldn't hear you because you were totally killed by that guitar player's amp.

Of course guitar players are being ridiculous playing at such volumes. Even in guitar-driven genres. Even in large venues. Good luck getting anyone to turn down, though. Been there, done it, got the hearing loss to prove it.

Use ear protection. Every time. Seriously.

I hear you about the ear protection. Our drummer is reason enough for it! Talk about loud.

If the 410 is of a better quality for the money I'll be going for that. My main concern is not sinking more money into it especially if my purchase isn't going to get the most bang for the buck. Originally I wanted a modular rig and I think the 4-ohm 810 is getting away from that goal. I can justify the extra $50 bucks in saving my back on constant hauling around heavy gear.

[HertzWhenIPlay]

a pair of 2x12s stacked vertically would perform quite well and be rather manageable to load...

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by HertzWhenIPlay

a pair of 2x12s stacked vertically would perform quite well and be rather manageable to load...

That's kind of my dream rig. But I've played in groups that would devastate that rig. In a minute.

[StraightSix]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

That's kind of my dream rig. But I've played in groups that would devastate that rig. In a minute.

You can't be using very good 2X12s then...a high quality double 2X12 stack will easily handle in excess of 2KW and, if vertically stacked, will destroy any 100W guitar stack.

Barefaced Bass - Super Twelve

[JimmyM]

I wouldn't necessarily back off the 810 because it's bulky. I would, however, back off it because it's made out of MDF and only sounds OK at best. A couple years ago I tried out an Acoustic 810, a Markbass CL108, and an Ampeg 810e at the same time, and the Acoustic came in 3rd. Wasn't horrible...just wasn't up to the level of the other two. With cabs, it pays not to skimp, although you don't necessarily have to pay a fortune to get good sound. And when you can find used 810e's for only a little more than the guy wants for the Acoustic, it doesn't make sense to buy it for $300.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by StraightSix

You can't be using very good 2X12s then...a high quality double 2X12 stack will easily handle in excess of 2KW and, if vertically stacked, will destroy any 100W guitar stack.

Barefaced Bass - Super Twelve

Just because they're not the neos Alex uses and 4 of them can't handle 2000w doesn't mean they're not very good. Power handling is not everything.

[StraightSix]

Power handling is not everything - loudness is.

My point was to say that a blanket statement that some groups could 'devastate that rig in a minute' is misleading.

Carry on

[MyMusic]

Try and save a little more and get an Avatar B412.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by StraightSix

My point was to say that a blanket statement that some groups could 'devastate that rig in a minute' is misleading.

It really isn't.

You get two guitar players, each with 100w tube heads and 4x12 half stacks and they turn them up loud enough to blow the cuffs of their jeans around with each barre chord? No. You don't own a pair of 2x12 cabs that's going to bring a bass guitar up to that level. And neither does anyone else.