What's the diff between sound of Tube Bass head and a Tube PA head?

Rat Blitz · #1 09-06-2010, 03:21 PM

Please excuse my ignorance but what exactly would the difference in sound or features be between a vintage tube PA systems and a vintage tube bass amp?

Reason I'm asking is that I have the opportunity to purchase a vintage tube PA from the 70s at a very good price. I would prefer not to mention the name because the deal is not finalized at this time.

It's an obscure brand but I have seen that someone used the same model as a bass head and compared it favorably to an Ampeg V4.

The PA has four channels. I don't plan on using the cabinets that come with it. But I am interested if there is really anything that makes a PA tube head different from a bass tube amp. And what makes a guitar tube amp different from a bass tube amp (effects only?)

This may be an opportunity to get vintage tube bass sound for a fraction of the price of an older Traynor or Ampeg amp. Or will I be sadly disappointed?

JimmyM · #2 09-06-2010, 03:31 PM

the difference is the same as any two different amps would be...construction methods, voicings, different components. could this pa head work for you? absolutely. will it? only you can answer that.

Rat Blitz · #3 09-06-2010, 04:05 PM

So other than "construction methods, voicings, different components" there is no diff between tube bass amp and tube pa? What about tube guitar? No major preamp difference? Or can that be compensated by rolling off the high end?

bgmww · #4 09-06-2010, 04:11 PM

If your are talking about the Hiwatt PA200.. Go get it man. It´ll blow you head.

modulusman · #5 09-06-2010, 04:27 PM

Why would you want to waste your money. Without knowing what you are gettingI would guess that it will sound like crap.

daflores · #6 09-06-2010, 04:37 PM

It just doesn't quite feel right. I think you would be disappointed.

nicoli · #7 09-06-2010, 04:51 PM

Can you try before you buy, or is it dirt cheap? Seems like an interesting chance to land some vintage tube tone.

Rat Blitz · #8 09-06-2010, 04:54 PM

I don't believe it's a waste of money cause for $250 I'll get a 100 watt vintage tube PA head and 2 4x10 PA columns that I can integrate into my practice PA.
That was what I was looking for in the first place but then someone online said he used this same head for bass and another guy used it for a guitar amp.
And both said it sounded great.
It's a vintage obscure brand but one that had a very good reputation for those who are old enough to remember the 70s.
I'll give you a hint that it was made by a group of engineers that left Fender.
So the bottom line is I spend $250 to complete our practice PA ... and the bonus "MAY BE" that I get a decent back up tube Bass amp in the bargain.
Cheers

MAMMOTHvolume · #9 09-06-2010, 05:00 PM

i'd go for it, most valve pa's make great bass heads and usually have better iron than used in the guitar type heads!

modulusman · #10 09-06-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat Blitz

I don't believe it's a waste of money cause for $250 I'll get a 100 watt vintage tube PA head and 2 4x10 PA columns that I can integrate into my practice PA.
That was what I was looking for in the first place but then someone online said he used this same head for bass and another guy used it for a guitar amp.
And both said it sounded great.
It's a vintage obscure brand but one that had a very good reputation for those who are old enough to remember the 70s.
I'll give you a hint that it was made by a group of engineers that left Fender.
So the bottom line is I spend $250 to complete our practice PA ... and the bonus "MAY BE" that I get a decent back up tube Bass amp in the bargain.
Cheers

Whatever floats your boat.

Since it was designed to be used as PA then I would guess the EQ is voiced for vocals. Since it is a 1970s era PA it probably has a bass and a treble knob. The tonal possabilties are endless.

JimmyM · #11 09-06-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Whatever floats your boat.

Since it was designed to be used as PA then I would guess the EQ is voiced for vocals. Since it is a 1970s era PA it probably has a bass and a treble knob. The tonal possabilties are endless.

i agree. the tonal possibilities ARE endless. my b-15 has bass and treble. i can get any tone i want out of it.

coreyfyfe · #12 09-06-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat Blitz

But I am interested if there is really anything that makes a PA tube head different from a bass tube amp. And what makes a guitar tube amp different from a bass tube amp (effects only?)

EQ centers and transformers. An old tube PA head will probably be pretty good as a bass head, potentially better than a guitar head. If the OT on a guitar head is designed with a higher low-end roll off than the tube PA head (likely scenario, if the PA was designed for wider output range) you'll get better bass response with the PA head.

http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm

KramerBassFan · #13 09-06-2010, 07:20 PM

So its an AIMS amp?

Are you sure its 100w? Alot of them had 2x 6550's and were called "100w".

Rat Blitz · #14 09-06-2010, 07:49 PM

KrammerBassFan ... you know your stuff from all my hints!
The one I found online had 100 Watts Loaded with 6L6 Tubes. I haven't seen this one and when I asked the guy he wasn't sure about the tube situation. Are you suggesting I won't get enough juice from it?
I don't know very much about "valves".
Maybe I should bring my bass with me when I try it out. Perhaps it's not that wise to play it through the 4x10 columns.

just added ... I just found old ad for it. It "says" 102 Watts RMS/Peak Power 205 Watts .. For whatever that is worth.

randall p · #15 09-06-2010, 08:03 PM

Buy it. Worst that happens, you have a low wattage tube amp perfect for smaller joints that can't handle larger tube amps (SVT). You will hit the sweet spot on the amp at lower volume and not annoy everyone in the place.

KramerBassFan · #16 09-06-2010, 08:11 PM

Its probably 4 x 6L6 then.

I've seen some of the AIMS PA's that had two 6550's, and were labelled 100w.

Don't worry, i don't know ALL that much.. i'm still young.

But either way... $250 for a 100w tube amp and two PA cabinets?

Oh HELL YES!

If you can get a picture of the tubes, somebody here could tell for sure.

That said, i own two 100w tube amps, and have played through a few of them, and 100w has NEVER not been enough power with a good speaker. That said, i don't play sludge metal or anything like that at all.

rodl2005 · #17 09-06-2010, 08:25 PM

+1 grab it. They work REAL well with a pre amp type pedal- such as the VT bass- The EQ in the old PA heads CAN be a bit limiting, but when I had a 180w PA valve head I used the old Behringer V-AMP pre/ pod rip off thing & it helped the EQ possibilities heaps, so adding a VTbass pedal- WONDERFUL results IMO!!

D.M.N. · #18 09-06-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAMMOTHvolume

i'd go for it, most valve pa's make great bass heads and usually have better iron than used in the guitar type heads!

That's the same thing I've heard. I've seen plenty of people using PA amps for bass with great results. Part of that is that they usually were designed for more head room before distortion, since you didn't want distorted vocals. (I could be wrong, but that only makes sense.) There's someone on here with two Simms Watt PAs I believe, and someone else was looking at a 100w Fender PA recently.

KramerBassFan · #19 09-06-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

That's the same thing I've heard. I've seen plenty of people using PA amps for bass with great results. Part of that is that they usually were designed for more head room before distortion, since you didn't want distorted vocals. (I could be wrong, but that only makes sense.) There's someone on here with two Simms Watt PAs I believe, and someone else was looking at a 100w Fender PA recently.

Most tube amplifiers were designed to minimize distortion.

Why do you think they kept making bigger and bigger ones? It was a time when distortion was a big NO-NO.

It just so happens, that these amps that were designed to not distort, happen to be quite musical when they do.

D.M.N. · #20 09-06-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

Most tube amplifiers were designed to minimize distortion.

Why do you think they kept making bigger and bigger ones? It was a time when distortion was a big NO-NO.

It just so happens, that these amps that were designed to not distort, happen to be quite musical when they do.

No, I know that, but often weren't the PA heads more linear output as to thoroughly eliminate distortion? Maybe I'm way off, but I thought that was part of the reason they were somewhat good in the bass amp use, that they, even more so than comparable dedicated instrument amps, were designed to be loud and clean. I mean, it won't be able to compete cleanly with a 200w Bass or PA amp, but compared to other 100w amps, I thought PA head often stayed cleaner longer before breaking up.

Corse, I could be way off, in which case, OP, disregard what I'm saying.