When / Why Did 2x10 Cabs Get so Durned Big?

[jaywa]

I'm thinking of investing in a 2x10 cab that I could pair with a hybrid head (Walkabout or GB Streamliner) for a "mini-stack" on stage and could also put atop my 4x10 for the 3 or 4 "big stage" events I play a year.

My ideal footprint for this cabinet would be something like Hartke's XL-210 but in researching options it seems like most of the higher end 210s out there are bigger than that... in some cases a LOT bigger. For example I was checking out an Epifani on the TB Classifeds and that thing looks freakin huge.

Just wondering why this is and if the extra cabinet size/weight is really worth it or if the Hartke would do what I need. Keeping in mind also that my 4x10 cab is an early 90s Hartke XL.

Thanks in advance.

[StrangerDanger]

Maybe because bigger, deeper cabs sound better?

Size matters.

[KJung]

The smallest 210's I've experienced are the more recent Bergantino models (HS210, HD210, AE210). Very thin front to back, and nice performance.

The discontinued HS and the HD are very similar, a bit heavy (ceramic drivers) and nice and warm and fat and mid present. The AE210 is the same size, rear ported, and is a bit brighter up top and not quite as low mid present.

GREAT 210's and the vertical version of the AE210 (the AE210b, with the revoiced top end) is probably the best sounding 210 I've experienced. The earlier AE210 also sounds good, but is a bit more aggressive up top.

Edit: The older 210UL Epi cabs are big, but quite lightweight. BIG bottom and very relaxed mids on those... even more than the 410UL.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by StrangerDanger

Maybe because bigger, deeper cabs sound better?

Size matters.

I get that, but here's my situation:

- Virtually 100% of my gigs are with P.A. support; my onstage rig rarely if ever is expected to carry the room and I usually decline gigs where P.A. support for the bass is not part of the deal

- About 70% of my gigs are with my main band which has its own IEM system and in these cases the bass rig is for onstage "presence" more than actual monitoring

- The bass rig is really not a part of my FOH sound at all as I never mic the cab

The bottom line is that space in my personal vehicle, in our band trailer and in most cases, on stage is at a premium so yeah, size matters to me but in the "smaller is better" sense. Hence asking if the larger footprint and weight of bigger 210 cabs is worth it.

And yeah, since I didn't specify, the 2x10 would be run in a "vertical" configuration when it was the only cab used.

[tjh]

... one reason they are all bigger than the Hartke is that most are ported cabs ... the 210XL on top of your 410XL may or may not work well, depending on what your using for power ... the 210 is an 8 ohm cab same as your 410, so that means each driver in the 210 will be getting twice the power of the drivers in the 410 unless you have bi-amp or stereo capabilities ...

.. the drivers in your 90's 410XL are probably rated pretty accurately at 60 watts each, and after using the 210XL, even though the cab is rated at 200 watts (100 ea driver), I think the 60 watts each driver is more accurate ... so that means with the 210 getting twice the power, you would need to be pretty observant when using it atop your 410 ...

... FWIW, you can get a used 410XL these days for probably the same price as a 210XL, maybe just go that way for the few times you have to 'lug' it, and you already know you like the sound of that ... the sealed 210XL is not the same as the ported 410XL ... JMHO

Edit to add: ... clarification of your situation was being typed as was my response ... you have no need for two 410's obviously ... I use two 210XL's stacked vertically, for much the same reason when it comes to small stages ... if I need more I add up to two of the Ampeg SVT-210AV's ... I like sealed cabs, and the voicing of the Hartke/Ampegs together ... and I am frugal .. ok, cheap ... I wouldn't use a single of either the cabs I have in most situations, the second one makes a HUGE difference ... if I was only going to use one 210, it would probably not be one of these ... again, JMHO

[jlepre]

http://www.tcelectronic.com/rs210/
I have no experience with this cab, but it IS small. I have experience with the Epifani UL-210 and they sound HUGE. If you're just looking for a stage monitor, then I would look at smaller options like the TC.

14"x 26"x 14" small enough for ya?

[jaywa]

Thanks for the tip on the TCs. That looks more like what I have in mind. Would love to hear from anyone who has or is gigging them currently.

[tjh]

Originally Posted by jlepre

http://www.tcelectronic.com/rs210/
I have no experience with this cab, but it IS small. I have experience with the Epifani UL-210 and they sound HUGE. If you're just looking for a stage monitor, then I would look at smaller options like the TC.

14"x 26"x 14" small enough for ya?

John may have something here ... the TC cab is 2 inches deeper and the 2 inches taller than the Hartke 210XL ... I had considered it in my 210 hunt as well, but none were available used at the time.... it is also the exact same weight as the 210XL ..

[WJGreer]

This is exactly why I've stuck with Eden 210XSTs for a long time now. They are very petite, given the punch they deliver. They're not light, but their form factor and size makes them easy enough to carry anyway.

[john m]

You could use a combo. My Markbass 112 works great.

Very light. If you need "your sound", run the DI post eq and preamp.

I'm sure there are great 2-10 combos if you love 10's.

GK stuff is very light.

Or--- build your own 2-10 box.

[jaywa]

Actually, my main onstage amp right now is a combo (Line 6 LowDown 150).

It has been doing fine for what I need but I'd like to upgrade to the tone (and power) of a higher end hybrid head and if I do that I want to keep both the head and the cabinet small so as to not sacrifice the portability of my current combo.

[lomo]

If all you need is a great stage monitor with small form factor, why not a Baer, Audiokinesis, fEarful, fEarless or LDS 12/6? Put it on a light, collapsible, cheap stand from MuFr and you're set. Light, loud, clear, smallish and will outperform a stock 210.

[StephenR]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

This is exactly why I've stuck with Eden 210XSTs for a long time now. They are very petite, given the punch they deliver. They're not light, but their form factor and size makes them easy enough to carry anyway.

I picked up one of these recently and really like the size of the cabinet. So much easier to move than my 4x10XLT. Sounds great, too.

When I bought my 4x10XLT I considered getting two 2x10XLT cabs (XST weren't available yet) but the size of the 2x10XLT cabs was a real turn off as they were almost as big and heavy as the 4x10 model.

[Emibass]

I hear you. That´s why I want to build one with one 10" in front and the other one faced down. It would look like a cube.

[StephenR]

Originally Posted by Emibass

I hear you. That´s why I want to build one with one 10" in front and the other one faced down. It would look like a cube.

Acoustic Image makes an extension cabinet like this.

http://www.acousticimg.com/#/ten2ex_s4/lp

I have a series III codaR that I use for my Renaissance bass and Acoustic Image makes excellent products that are small and light. Amazing warranty, too.

[Emibass]

Originally Posted by StephenR

Acoustic Image makes an extension cabinet like this.

http://www.acousticimg.com/#/ten2ex_s4/lp

I have a series III codaR that I use for my Renaissance bass and Acoustic Image makes excellent products that are small and light. Amazing warranty, too.

WHY??????? Now you have just blown away all my dreams about this design. I was planned to be famous!!!!!

[Philonius]

A Crazy 88 would be an excellent choice too. Overkill perhaps, if all you're after is onstage "presence."