When you say an amp is "sterile"....

[Mike M.]

....is it more the amp, the speakers or both combined? I'm asking because I'm about to embark on some serious amp shopping and I haven't done this in years. I don't even own a real bass amp!! I'm currentley playing at church but I go direct.

The last time I shopped for an amp was in 1979 when I bought a used SVT head and I played it thru a cabinet with 2, 12" Gauss speakers. What a great sounding setup it was and I used that setup thru 1983. Took a break until 1994 and I used it on weekends thru 1996. That's it!

Obviously a lot has changed since then and while I've got a lot of homework and listening to do I thought I'd get a bit of a heads up from you good folks as far as what to listen for.

So far the only thing I've tried out was an older use GK 210 combo and while it sounded pretty good to me it wasn't enough of a test drive to say, "GK amps sound like this, or like that."

Genz Benz, Mark Bass....haven't tried them out at all, couldn't tell you the first thing about them other than they look nice!

Offhand I'd like to find something along the lines of my old setup that's current (as in light weight), something with 2, 12's and something that will accomidate a 5 string bass.

But again when you say "sterile" is it a combination of the amp and speakers or is it more a quality of an amp head itself.

Just trying to get as much info so I know what to listen for.

Thanks for your time.

[bertbassplayer]

Just listen to what you think is best. Doesn't matter if it's Sterile or Muddy, those are just things people throw around to describe what they think. One man's "Sterile" is another man's "Clean and Clear." One man's "Muddy" is another man's "Thick and Robust." Just use your own ears and get what you think is best with your ears.

[Bob C]

Others here have more hands-on experience and technical knowledge, but I'm first. So, here goes:

It's both. And there's no such thing as completely flat or transparent. But you did say "sterile". One person's "sterile" is another's "pure".

But I would say an SVT is on the opposite end of the spectrum from sterile. It is warm, grinding, and well ... tubey. So, use that as a starting point. Do you want to stay in that ballpark? Or do you like that sound EXCEPT for ...?

You really need to go to a good store with a good staff and explain your plight. Take your bass along, if you like. Then start A/B-ing stuff.

Regarding heads and preamps, generally speaking (IMO) lots of the boutique stuff might be considered "sterile", if you are used to Ampeg, Mesa or Eden. GK might be right down the middle.

But of course there are so many variables, and it's subjective too. Get out there and window shop. It's a labor of love!

[Bob C]

Funny - bertbassplayer types faster than me. But we are both on the same page.

[JimmyM]

for me, it's the amp. the cab just broadcasts what the amp does. however, i also agree that sterility is in the eye of the beholder.

[butchblack]

+1 on sterility being subjective. You may want to search for the thread GK shootout Mb210 vrs MB212 or PM tallboy. The MB212 has been getting a lot of good reviews on TB and may be a good combo to look at. I have the MB210 and love it.

[will33]

IMO, it's a magazine article term. Could mean weak and lifeless or it could mean accurate and natural, like a di right off the bass before any amp/speaker coloring. If it's a good bass, it'll sound fine. Find something that sounds good to you, not just right in front of it but turning it up a ways, playing with a band, having a good time and not being anchored in front of your amp, sitting in the mix, etc. A couple of brands that some may refer to as "sterile" or too clean, etc. are GK and SWR. I've had both and can get a warm/full sound out of either. I can also make them sound "sterile" if I want to.....I don't.

[KJung]

I agree with Jimmy that the term 'sterile' as we use it on TB is typically associated with amplification. However, it is a relative term, and not that useful. Good advice given above... use your ears if you can try some of this stuff.

For me, the Markbass stuff is totally warm and has tons of character, and, for example, the EA stuff is sterile (meaning huge low end, super crisp hi fi top end, and a midrange that is so clean as to be.. .well... sterile). Of course, a guy used to an SVT pushed a bit would call my Mark bass amps 'sterile' because they are relatively clean.

After you play all this stuff, general 'company' trends emerge in amplification. For example:

GK... aggressive solid state grind... punchy, not tubey AT ALL, somewhat grindy/grungy midrange (if you want it).. bright.... I call it the 'Flea' tone. Lot's of modern rockers in their artist list.

MarKbass... relatively even, clean, but some sort of harmonic distortion in the mids that makes the amps sound warm. Very articulate... the jazz/pop guys love them, as you can see from their artist list... Tommy Kennedy, Alain Caron, etc., etc.

Mesa Boogie.... totally in love with tubes, even though they don't make an all tube amp... unique 'tubey hybrid' tone... super warm, fat, a bit of grind, a bit bloomy.... again, lots of rockers using them who want tube warm but not all out grind. 'The other Ampeg'.

Ampeg... the classic 'hard rock' amp... lots of guys with PBasses slung low using these... mid present, grindy, growly.

Genz Benz.... can't quite put my finger on a general description or type of player. Bright, tight, a bit grindy in the upper mids... kind of 'modern tube' maybe... kind of 'modern and bright but not sterile' to my ear, which is not a bad place to be (kind of like 'the new Eden', which also had a wider, more general following than other brands back in the day).

Aguilar.... CLEAN and TUBE.... even though their amps are not all tube.... super warm, a bit bloomy... NO grind... clean, fat, bloomy, bit, warm, creamy.

TecAmp.... uber wide and clean... crisp, accurate, deep, hi fi top end...

TC.... the 'new Ampeg' (at least the new Ampeg hybrids)... warm, mid present... lots of rockers and former Ampeg guys migrating to this brand, it seems.


Of course, those are over-generalizations, but in the spirit of your question... there is a sort of 'family' inherent tone to all this stuff, and each brand seems to appeal to a certain type of player (although exceptions are the rule, obviously).

[WyrdoBass]

When an amp is sterile it can't make little baby amps.

The more you know...

[seamonkey]

Sterile means "incapable of reproducing"
So if your amp can't reproduce what you send to it then it's "sterile"
In my subjective opinion.

Too many of these words fill magazines and forum reviews.
Nobody would ever say sharp boost at 3khz, or 3db cut from 500hz to 600hz. They'd come up with some word. And people pay to read it.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by WyrdoBass

When an amp is sterile it can't make little baby amps.

The more you know...

[KJung]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Sterile means "incapable of reproducing"
So if your amp can't reproduce what you send to it then it's "sterile"
In my subjective opinion.

Too many of these words fill magazines and forum reviews.
Nobody would ever say sharp boost at 3khz, or 3db cut from 500hz to 600hz. They'd come up with some word. And people pay to read it.

Lot more to it than simple boosting and cutting of frequencies... hence the descriptions. There are probably hundreds of interactions that make one preamp sound the way it does and another sound the way it does. If you try to describe that and understand it with 'specs', you'd need an EE degree and about 5 pages of text.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by KJung

Lot more to it than simple boosting and cutting of frequencies... hence the descriptions. There are probably hundreds of interactions that make one preamp sound the way it does and another sound the way it does. If you try to describe that and understand it with 'specs', you'd need an EE degree and about 5 pages of text.

Or 1 chart would tell all.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Or 1 chart would tell all.

If things were linear (i.e., non-interactive), yes. But they aren't. Thank god

[KsPiNeSh]

... I would be referring to SWR

In all seriousness, KJung pretty much nailed it on the head. although I am one of his "unquantifiable Genz Benz players"

[KJung]

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh

... I would be referring to SWR

In all seriousness, KJung pretty much nailed it on the head. although I am one of his "unquantifiable Genz Benz players"

Forgot about SWR. That's a strange one, in that they started out as the sort of 'funk' amp... deep bass, scooped mids, super sizzly highs, but then came out with the 'x' series, which are more 'Mesa Like'... grindy rock. +1 though that many feel SWR (at least the early stuff) literally defined 'sterile'.

How would you describe the Genz thing? (EDIT: I'll answer my own question... 'the new Eden'). Not sure if there are a consistent type of 'name' players using them. That isn't all bad... kind of the 'amp for everyone' maybe.... modern, bright, but not sterile (i.e. tube character in the mids but no 'tube bloom' in the lows at all.. tight and bright).

[Mike M.]

Thanks for your time, gang. Lot's of food for thought here. KJung, thanks for giving me something to go by with all you listed there. I know I have to use my own ears but what you've given me will be a good general starting point.

I'll give you an idea of the sounds I like. While I was never one to try and copy one's sound there have been a few sounds that I used as a referance point in my head back in my bar days.

Like him or not, I loved Michael Anthony's tone on "Fair Warning." Big, fat, punchy and defined.

Bruce Thomas from Elvis Costello. Great P bass grind while sounding fat.

Graham Maby from Joe Jackson. I also enjoy playing with a pick and I loved the sound that he got. Had that pick clarity but without being ice-picky on the treble.

How much of these sounds was studio trickery I don't know. But again, the sounds from those three players are the one's that I always used as referance points without copying and to this day I still love those tones. That's the tonal ballpark that I like.

As far as my bass, I just bought an Ibanez SR505 and I LOVE it!! Used it at church (direct) for the first time this past Sunday and one of the other guitar and bass players were in the congregation and they told my my sound was phenominal.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Mike M.

Thanks for your time, gang. Lot's of food for thought here. KJung, thanks for giving me something to go by with all you listed there. I know I have to use my own ears but what you've given me will be a good general starting point.

I'll give you an idea of the sounds I like. While I was never one to try and copy one's sound there have been a few sounds that I used as a referance point in my head back in my bar days.

Like him or not, I loved Michael Anthony's tone on "Fair Warning." Big, fat, punchy and defined.

Bruce Thomas from Elvis Costello. Great P bass grind while sounding fat.

Graham Maby from Joe Jackson. I also enjoy playing with a pick and I loved the sound that he got. Had that pick clarity but without being ice-picky on the treble.

How much of these sounds was studio trickery I don't know. But again, the sounds from those three players are the one's that I always used as referance points without copying and to this day I still love those tones. That's the tonal ballpark that I like.

As far as my bass, I just bought an Ibanez SR505 and I LOVE it!! Used it at church (direct) for the first time this past Sunday and one of the other guitar and bass players were in the congregation and they told my my sound was phenominal.

Nice examples. Warm, but still tight, and there is some brightness/articulation there also (just listened to a few snippets off that Van Halen album on Amazon... it's been a long time.

Genz Benz might be a good place to start. The Shuttle heads with the Neox or Uber boxes (not the little Shuttle cabs... too small and bright sounding IMO) might get you there without breaking your back or budget. If you don't need a lot of volume, a Shuttle 9 with a NeoX112 is worth trying out. IMO... at least a place to start.... I'm hearing that kind of 'modern tube' thing in those examples... warm, but not bloomy, and with a touch of brightness. That describes the Genz voicing to me. I'm not a fan of the Shuttle 6, but the Max heads and the Shuttle 9 are a good place to start.

IMO!

OK... have fun with the search. I enjoyed the thread!

[pygmygrizzly]

check out class D power amps. they're super light (like 6 lbs) and power 300 to 800 watts. and neodymium cabs, (Neodymium is a new magnet for speakers that get higher power with less weight) every company is doing the class D with Neo's now. but you have to play them, I've noticed that many clam to have tons of power and tone while staying under 40 lbs, but they sound like poop stools when you turn them up. GK's neo combos for example.

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by KJung

How would you describe the Genz thing? (EDIT: I'll answer my own question... 'the new Eden'). Not sure if there are a consistent type of 'name' players using them. That isn't all bad... kind of the 'amp for everyone' maybe.... modern, bright, but not sterile (i.e. tube character in the mids but no 'tube bloom' in the lows at all.. tight and bright).

You touched on my love of Genz - tight and bright. I've been playing Genz for 7 years now (a GBE 400 for 3 years and a GBE 1200 for the last 4) and have yet to find something that tickles my ear more. I really dig the way their gear has a great presence in a mix (i.e. is audible with some oomph) and has some inherent grind through the mids, but still maintains control (no "tube bloom") and doens't trample on the sonic space of the kick or the guitar like some heads do. I play hard rock, and in a live setting I love the fact that no sound guys can't give to too much rumble... absolutely love it.

I will note that for recording, I prefer the slight mid-scoop and fatter bottom of my Mesa heads. IMO same philosophical direction, but definitely fatter down low and smoother through the mids. They also sound great in a mix, but I've just found that the Genz conveys more of "my sound" through a large PA.

To the OP - +1 to Ken's suggestion of starting with Genz. The Shuttle 9 has been described as arguably their tubiest amp yet, but it still has a certain tightness and presence that will keep you audible. Also, their cabs are quick and clear while still keeping a good amount of bottom - a perfect balance in my book.