Where can I find a warm, round, full 2 10 cab? Are Neo's the problem?

[jibreel]

Hugely subjective I know so here are the details:

I play fretless/piezo etc and Fender P with an old school Dimarzio pup and black flats. My favorite speakers are Acoustic Image speakers, which are little creatures with downward firing 10’s and a front facing 5”. I have two, which I lay them on their side so the 10” is facing out. See pic below.

They sound great. Full, fat and high-fidelity. They reproduce the sound of the bass/amp without coloring the tone. But they are small!!! So they will start to frap out a little to quickly. So I need to get another cabinet, ideally a 210.

I have purchased and sold a Berg AE112. Tried the other Berg 112 also. AMAZING speakers but to aggressively mid-voiced. Bought and sold a GB Uber 210. Also amazing and more to my liking voicing- wise, but still not it. Tried most of the cabs at Bass Northwest. The only one that is close to what I want is an Ampeg PN210HLF.

So is it the Neo’s ?? Or the design. To use a loose analogy, these newer speakers sound more like the bridge pickup on a jazz bass [ boxy/nasally] and I want one that sounds like a precision pickup with warm flats.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks !

[tsunami1052]

BassNW still a EA Dealer?

If yes, check out the EA NL210.
Or
Acme B2

Better yet, EA VL-210lm in classifieds.

[Gougedeye]

I have a Genz Benz XBR210 that is really big and round and warm. 4 ohm and 500 watts. If you could try one of those, it might be the answer you're looking for. Good luck.

[jibreel]

Originally Posted by Gougedeye

I have a Genz Benz XBR210 that is really big and round and warm. 4 ohm and 500 watts. If you could try one of those, it might be the answer you're looking for. Good luck.

Did you mean GB 210T-XB3? Couldn't find a XBR210.

If this is it, it looks quite interesting.

[tsunami1052]

Tom Bolus 210 Shootout.

Bowlus Bass Blog: 2x10 Shootout

[sbassface]

I gotta say I was thinking EA NL-210 also, I just got one couldn't be more pleased, fits your desription well, now on to look at the shootout...

[SJan3]

If you get the chance, try an AGUILAR DB210. I use it alone with my P Bass and I really dig how it speaks. I put extra feet on one end so it can stand on it's side like a mini tower and power it with a Little Mark III. May not be as transparent as your AI's but I really like the results with a P Bass and/or fretless.

[burnunit]

Ampeg 210AV for me - I play have been playing DB and EB through an AI Contra II since 2004 up until recently and am very happy with the Micro VR through the 210AV. I also play lap steel through a Kustom Defender 5W with the 210AV and it sounds great as well IMO.

[seamonkey]

Add a powered subwoofer. This will fill out the sound fine for the larger gigs.

[IntrepidCellist]

Eden D210XLT?

[jibreel]

Thanks all. Lots of great suggestions.

If only I could hang out at Tom's for a few hours...............

[Calaverasgrande]

could a passive sub with inbulit crossover work?

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by Gougedeye

I have a Genz Benz XBR210 that is really big and round and warm. 4 ohm and 500 watts. If you could try one of those, it might be the answer you're looking for. Good luck.

Originally Posted by jibreel

Did you mean GB 210T-XB3? Couldn't find a XBR210.

If this is it, it looks quite interesting.

I'd guess that he has an original XB series cab - if I remember right, those badges had XBR on them.

On the subject of Genz, their 210 cabs may very well work for you, particularly an Uber 210. That Bowlus thread should also have some great info.

[Muckaluck]

My first thought was Acme. I have his new flatwound and really like it. Check out my video of it: YouTube - Traynor YBA200 Tube Test - With Acme Series III Flatwound and Lakland LOG P5

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

could a passive sub with inbulit crossover work?

OK we are looking for >100dB @ 1 watt I meter @ 30Hz.
We had better look for a very low resistance inductor for the low pass filter.
ALE LF compression drivers have been known to match or exceed these requirements when used with the LF horn at the bottom of this page:
ALE Acoustic - Horns
You might get there or there abouts with one of these brand new bad boys but there is no spare dB's for crossover losses:
JBL :: Product
So really to be on the safe side, its a job for very efficient minimum 2 X 18 sub to properly match a high efficiency 2 X 10 mid bass unit and tweeter using a passive crossover.
I still fancy the ALE option is best.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jibreel

Thanks all. Lots of great suggestions.

If only I could hang out at Tom's for a few hours...............

Given the cabs you like now, the TC Electronics RS210 might really do it for you. Nice vertical configuration, very smooth, warm non neo drivers that are mid present in general, but no upper mid spike, and a glorious coax tweeter that is smooth and not overly sizzly. Wonderful cab, VERY inexpensive. Not a featherweight, but not bad, and the vertical format makes it feel lighter. My favorite 210 at the moment.

The only downside for me (similar to the Berg AE's) is the rather delicate spray on finish.. but the padded cover fixes that issue.

IMO... really nice box.

In a 112, the Audiokinesis Thunderchild is a 'box of wonder'.... very even, full range, small, and while relatively low efficiency, the 4ohm impedance makes it sing with the typical 400-600 watt micro head.

[Arjank]

About the OP's question if Neo's are the problem.

It could be.
There are a lot of (mostly 1st gen)Neo drivers with a very strong motor, most of them will sound like you described "like a bridge pu of a jazzbass". It may have been the case with the Neo cabs you tested.
But nowadays there are several Neo speakers with "normal" motors and there are also enough ceramic magnet speakers with very strong motors. So all in all it should not have anything to do with the magnet material. It all comes down to the designers philosophy.

If you want hifi sound with enough warmth and accurate reproduction of the bassguitar you should take a peak at my design. It will not sound like a bridge pu of a jazzbass. Building a superior 2x10 cab

[Gougedeye]

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh

I'd guess that he has an original XB series cab - if I remember right, those badges had XBR on them.

On the subject of Genz, their 210 cabs may very well work for you, particularly an Uber 210. That Bowlus thread should also have some great info.

That is correct. It is one of the original XBR cabs. Sorry I wasn't more specific. Shoot, I don't think I could tell you when they were even produced. Good luck with your search.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by jibreel

Tried most of the cabs at Bass Northwest. The only one that is close to what I want is an Ampeg PN210HLF.

So is it the Neo’s ??

You do realize that the "PN" stands for "Pro Neo," don't you? I haven't tried the PN210HLF outside of NAMM, but I had a Pro Neo 410 in for review, and IME/IMHO, it's a fantastic cab, and probably my favorite Ampeg 4x10 (outside of the B-40).

One cab that never made it into my 2x10 shootouts (because I didn't have it yet) is the Mesa/Boogie PH210. This a largish, heavy 2x10, but Lordy, does it kick some booty! From a pure performance perspective, it is my favorite 2x10. It sounds bigger and more full than the others, but it gives up nothing in terms of tonal balance and overall clarity/articulation. If you need/want to go smaller & lighter, then I'd be steering you towards the NL-210, AE210, or Glockenklang Duo. Or, of course, the PN210HLF, since that seems to float the boat for you (and those are some very well-made, great performing cabs).

Tom.

[woody357]

The sound you have described is what I play with. I use a Epifani ps410. The PS210 should give you what you are looking for!