Who - in the search for big bottom end - CUTS some lows?

[jcburn]

Hey everyone. I have always been a bit of an EQ moron but just recently taken a bit of an interest trying to find MY sound.
I have realised that some of my favourite sounds/tones sound like low mids/mids are boosted, but the bottom end sounds very tight, making me think that maybe the lowest lows (i.e 60 Hz on my amp) may but set flat or maybe even cut.
For an example check out Bill Gould's tone on the song What A Day from the King For A Day album (Faith No More).
I realise part of his tone is Zon - Ampeg SVT, but to my ears it doesn't have those ultra lows boosted. It still sounds fat but to me its more low mids/mids, but not boomy. Very focussed.

[MuzikMan]

I do often times cut the lowest band of my EQ to emphasize low mids. To me it sounds more natural than boosting a particular low mid band. I guess I like high mids too! When I am dialing in my sound I work with the kick drum until both have their place in the mix if that makes sense.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

I do often times cut the lowest band of my EQ to emphasize low mids. To me it sounds more natural than boosting a particular low mid band. I guess I like high mids too! When I am dialing in my sound I work with the kick drum until both have their place in the mix if that makes sense.

We had a discussion about this topic on TB
Reproduce fundamentals with your rig: yes/no

[MuzikMan]

Originally Posted by Arjank

We had a discussion about this topic on TB
Reproduce fundamentals with your rig: yes/no

Yes, that thread is a good read!

[jcburn]

Thanks guys - I'll give that thread a read. It just always used to occur to me that to have a bigger bass sound you would boost lows, however I am realising that the tone and character of the sound is in the mids, and that to my ears the best area to boost lows isn't really 30-80 Hz, its more around 120 - 180.
My 4x10 speakers like this better too!

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by jcburn

Hey everyone. I have always been a bit of an EQ moron but just recently taken a bit of an interest trying to find MY sound.
I have realised that some of my favourite sounds/tones sound like low mids/mids are boosted, but the bottom end sounds very tight, making me think that maybe the lowest lows (i.e 60 Hz on my amp) may but set flat or maybe even cut.
For an example check out Bill Gould's tone on the song What A Day from the King For A Day album (Faith No More).
I realise part of his tone is Zon - Ampeg SVT, but to my ears it doesn't have those ultra lows boosted. It still sounds fat but to me its more low mids/mids, but not boomy. Very focussed.

Boom is more like 100-150 hz in most rooms with my cabs, I dont cut the lowest frequency in my digital eq in my active rig but it does have a high pass in the crossover feeding the system.
I like it set at about 21 hz 24 dB per octave, You don't want flutter on your bottom, do ya!.

[Ric5]

My lowest is either 50 or 40 hz depending on which eq I use.

[IvanMike]

As the referenced thread indicates, almost no bass guitar cabs are really capable of reproducing the last octave very well.

More to the point of the OP - I tend to treat it on a case by case basis depending upon the room, the bass used, and the tone the song requires. Sometimes cutting some low mids can tighten things up (really), other times cutting some of the lowest frequencies can help.

I recall one of my favorite "tricks" with an eden amp was to boost the bass knob a bit, but cut the semi parametric "lows" knob at 31 hz (the lowest setting) by the same amount if not a wee bit more.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by IvanMike

More to the point of the OP - I tend to treat it on a case by case basis depending upon the room, the bass used, and the tone the song requires. Sometimes cutting some low mids can tighten things up (really), other times cutting some of the lowest frequencies can help.

+1

This is what sound-engineers call frequency slotting.
In a live situation I allways try to find that "open-spot" in the low register and boost it there. This makes the sound cut-through without increasing the overall volume which also saves a lot of amplifier power and keeps speaker distortion lower.

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by jcburn

Hey everyone. I have always been a bit of an EQ moron but just recently taken a bit of an interest trying to find MY sound.
I have realised that some of my favourite sounds/tones sound like low mids/mids are boosted, but the bottom end sounds very tight, making me think that maybe the lowest lows (i.e 60 Hz on my amp) may but set flat or maybe even cut.
For an example check out Bill Gould's tone on the song What A Day from the King For A Day album (Faith No More).
I realise part of his tone is Zon - Ampeg SVT, but to my ears it doesn't have those ultra lows boosted. It still sounds fat but to me its more low mids/mids, but not boomy. Very focussed.

Not boosting the low's is always a good place to start.
Try cutting in the 125 to 250 range and boosting your volume to make up for the reduced acoustic output in the low mids. That should get you a better base line to carve your tone from.

If you really, really want tighter and deeper - lose the Mag 410. That cab doesn't really show off your EVO-II, which is a great head to it's best advantage IMO. What you hear from it is a significant low mids bump that serves to mask a lot of the sub 100 hz info and it messes with the upper mids as well. Although it varies from room to room, that low mid's range is where you find boomy often.

On a recorded track (I'm thinking the R&B, Pop, Rock world here)- the producer usually has extreme filters running on the bass, the low end of key's, bari-sax, kick drum and in a lot of it, the producer slots each instrument in to a nice tidy little band to get good separation. He or she essentially crafts a punchy low end that is more or less impossible to get live - unless you carry a sound guy and a rack of good filters along with your monster PA system - that leaves most of us mortals out ...

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

[
On a recorded track (I'm thinking the R&B, Pop, Rock world here)- the producer usually has extreme filters running on the bass, the low end of key's, bari-sax, kick drum and in a lot of it, the producer slots each instrument in to a nice tidy little band to get good separation. He or she essentially crafts a punchy low end that is more or less impossible to get live - unless you carry a sound guy and a rack of good filters along with your monster PA system - that leaves most of us mortals out ...

When I played live with a 7-piece jazz/funk band with 2 drummers I allways used my home-made 4-string instead of my Ibanez RD500(which does a pretty decent jazzbass sound). This bass is allmost completely made of maple and has a very distinct low-mid punch. Together with my 4x8 cab, a mic and a direct signal via the DI of my BBE BMAX-T the soundguy could make the bass cut through it all. Sometimes it's the combination of things that makes it work live. Also, these two drummers used completely different setups so they would not get in the way of eachother.

[Sundogue]

Now that I am using a fEARful 15/6, I'm finding that while it is certainly room/gig dependent, I can boost the sub 100Hz content a bit and cut the area around 100-150Hz as needed as that region seems to cause more boomy/droning tones onstage...for most indoor places we play anyway.

I realize I'm not getting full fundamentals out there, but the cab can handle sub 100Hz content better than other cabs I've used to help beef up the low end when I do find I need to cut in that upper bass/lo-mid area for rooms that require it.

But, of course again it is really room dependent. One can't just EQ for one room and expect it to remain the same everywhere else.

[Count Bassie]

Just to chime in here... I've been lately giving a little boost (+3 or so) at 100Hz, and cutting the freqs below that. I've also generally been cutting out 180 or so, up as far as 350, or even into the 600Hz range. I'm after some dark, bloomy 'push' with a little body to it, and I want to hear some 'finger-touch'. I don't love a strong mid-range, except to get some 'growl' out of it. Back up around 2K I'm flat again, a touch of boost between 5-10K, depending on which amp, and the room.

I'm using a Trace Elliot 4x10 and a Trace head, usually a Mexi Fender Jazz with heavy-guage nickel-rounds, or an early Yamaha BB400 with nylon flats.

[Count Bassie]

Originally Posted by Arjank

When I played live with a 7-piece jazz/funk band with 2 drummers I allways used my home-made 4-string instead of my Ibanez RD500(which does a pretty decent jazzbass sound). This bass is allmost completely made of maple and has a very distinct low-mid punch. Together with my 4x8 cab, a mic and a direct signal via the DI of my BBE BMAX-T the soundguy could make the bass cut through it all. Sometimes it's the combination of things that makes it work live. Also, these two drummers used completely different setups so they would not get in the way of eachother.

This sounds like a real good scenario! And a natural low-mid punch inherent in your bass gives a naturally hefty quality to work with, I'd imagine. Now you can 'sharpen' that... nice.
Thinking drummers. Hmmm...

[Robby Hoinsky]

EQing in a band setting needs to have the whole picture in mind. It is just like a mixinga song, amateur mixers always solo a track and then EQ it while pros know that making an instrument sound great in solo doesn't mean it sound great in the mix.

So what are the other instruments doing? Is the bass the only low end instrument or are there guitars and keys that perhaps need their low end cut?

Robby

[jcburn]

Good points folks. My post was really in relation to the tone in the song of the OP. It sound big and supportive but it isn't a big bloomy tone. It seems very definied while remaining fat. It just seemed to me that the focus of that tone was probably 100 - 500 Hz and then maybe a little boost in the treble area (as well as being a Zon bass and Ampeg setup!).

[stiles72]

Sometimes to get the deepest sound, you don't have to boost the low knob. Cutting certain mid frequencies may get you a cleaner and deeper tone - for example the ultra lo switch on an SVT/VR is just a mid cut @ 600hz. Other Ampeg models cut a different frequencies, but the effect is similar.

[Zooberwerx]

Too much of a variance bass-to-bass, rig-to-rig to zero on a specific freq. range. IME, what sounds great while thumping on the E string will suck the life out of the D & G...proceed with caution. I find the best tonal balance doing a parametric EQ 3 dB cut 'n sweep using the A / D string-7th fret as a reference.

Riis

[jcburn]

Originally Posted by stiles72

Sometimes to get the deepest sound, you don't have to boost the low knob. Cutting certain mid frequencies may get you a cleaner and deeper tone - for example the ultra lo switch on an SVT/VR is just a mid cut @ 600hz. Other Ampeg models cut a different frequencies, but the effect is similar.

That is great onfo to know and something I wasn't aware of. I must state I'm not asking for people to "fix' my tone, just opinions and options around my initial (poor) understanding.

I have played for years with little knowledge of how to EQ and just starting to get my head around it.

And in relation to an earlier post I am looking at grabbing either ann ABM 610 or possibly an Genz Benz 610 as an upgrade to my MAG cab. It's not a bad cab but I understand it isn't voiced very well for me.

[jcburn]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Too much of a variance bass-to-bass, rig-to-rig to zero on a specific freq. range. IME, what sounds great while thumping on the E string will suck the life out of the D & G...proceed with caution. I find the best tonal balance doing a parametric EQ 3 dB cut 'n sweep using the A / D string-7th fret as a reference.

Riis

And again great info that I wouldn't have initially thought of.