Who's hitting their 3012LF with big power?

[dug dog]

I'm running a 15/6 nEarful set up with a 300 watt Yorkville head. It sounds great and is definitely loud enough for my needs-a hard hitting drummer with guitars to match. (I do realize that "loud" is a pretty subjective term and I don't own an SPL meter.)

At any rate, I keep thinking that I'm not really taking advantage of the woof's full potential and often fantasize about how great it would be to get the job done with a single 12/6 and a high powered, light weight amp.

Anybody out there doing just that?

[KJung]

Higher power will not IMO make up for the difference in output between the mighty 15/6 and the smaller 12/6. That being said, I am using an Audiokinesis Thunderchild for my small and even medium sized gigs, and the proprietary 4ohm version of the 3012LF in a small box tuned a touch higher than the typical 12/6 box with the stock 3012LF takes all of the 500 watts of my Markbass F500 with no problem, and is surprisingly loud, deep and full sounding, with virtually no compression when pushed... gets easily to 210+ volume with a full, even low end response. Quite amazing.

That being said, the 15/6 LDS boxes that I've played, with the same head running at 300 watts, of course, put out more sound in an absolute sense, and more low end.

IMO and IME.

[dug dog]

Originally Posted by KJung

Higher power will not IMO make up for the difference in output between the mighty 15/6 and the smaller 12/6.

Yeah, that's essentially what I've been wondering about. It seems the only way I'll know for sure if it would meet my needs is to actually try it. Unfortunately, I can't just go down to the local shop and rent one of those cabs for a night.

[ptidwell]

When I run my AX115 3 way or my AX112 3 way (3012LF) solo, I use my power amp/preamp setup a crown XTi 2000 in bridge mono. I can feed it about 900 watts all evening and it takes it effortlessly. It can get stupid loud.

[dug dog]

Good info. You play your AX112 with a rock band, I presume?
(BTW, I've never heard of AX112 before. )

[Ukiah Bass]

I have an LDS 15/6 and a 12/6. Usually I play either one at a gig, and rarely have need for both. I used to put 725 watts into each cab. Once I was playing the 12/6 alone at an outdoor rock gig and felt it lacking in volume so I goosed the master. Don't remember how high, but it blew the 3012LF. Ouch!

Since then I have downsized to 600 watts per side. And I'm much more judicious in pushing the 12/6. It still can get very loud, but I rely on the 15/6 for situations requiring extreme volume and umph.

[dug dog]

Painful lesson with your 12, but, on the bright side, now you know where the edge is.

I'd say that you're pretty much in the ultimate situation cab-wise. It's what I'd like to do if space and budget permitted. (I may have to work on those 2 things.)

[dug dog]

Also, I think it says a lot for the 12 that you'd even consider using it alone with an outdoor rock set up.

[Ukiah Bass]

Originally Posted by dug dog

Also, I think it says a lot for the 12 that you'd even consider using it alone with an outdoor rock set up.

It was just a power trio but we had no PA reinforcement. I would not hesitate to use the 12/6 as a stage monitor in a loud outdoor rock gig if bass was mostly PA-driven for the audience.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by ptidwell

When I run my AX115 3 way or my AX112 3 way (3012LF) solo, I use my power amp/preamp setup a crown XTi 2000 in bridge mono. I can feed it about 900 watts all evening and it takes it effortlessly. It can get stupid loud.

Hooking up an amp that has the capability of producing 900 watts is quite different than the amp actually delivering that to the cab. Often, the gain matching of a preamp to a power amp results in the power amp running WAY below its rated power. My guess is, if you pushed the input of that power amp (which might actually be impossible, depending on the preamp output versus the input gain requirements of the amp), that 450 watt thermal rated 112 would melt

+1 to your general point though... the 3012LF can handle and USE (and actually NEEDS) more power than the typical mid voiced 12" driver used in most bass guitar cabs.

[Chef]

While it seems like a 15 is "only 3" bigger than a 12," the difference in cone area is substantive between the two.
A 15 is capable of moving a looot more air, all other things being equal.

[ptidwell]

Originally Posted by dug dog

Good info. You play your AX112 with a rock band, I presume?
(BTW, I've never heard of AX112 before. )

No, actually a full R&B band with horn section, cover Parliament, EWF, and anything funk.
BTW, I was trying not to advertise, check my profile avatar and you will see who manufactures the AX112 3 way.

[Jeff Scott]

I have a 2-12 cabinet with 3012LFs in it that I run either my Markbas F1 or Walter Woods Super into. At fairly high volume levels the drivers are barely moving! Personally, I would not want to be close to the cabinet when the amps are really cranked.

[rpsands]

Power compression.

Neither the 3012Lf or 3015Lf is going to get a lot louder after 450 watts. So say you give the 3012LF 450 watts and the 3015LF 300 watts...you're still looking at around ~3db more volume for the 3015LF due to power compression.

Nice thing about the 3012LF; put a 6nd410 midrange in there and biamp, and you can get a crapload of extra volume by going midrange heavy. That's how I'd roll if I wanted insane volume from a 12/6...use more mids and deal with it.

The 6nd410 is so damned loud it's unbelievable

[4Mal]

I've done plenty of gigs with a single 12.6. 300 to the lows, 300 to the mids. Guitarists with 40 and 60 watts tbe combos, drummer with mic'ed kick. Sometimes key's in the mix as well. These guys are not quiet. My rig was loafing though...

Obviously, some of the folks above have a higher absolute volume limit than mine. For thos gigs I have a fEarful 12 sub that I can add - to me its just stupid loud though ... the one time I gigged a pair of 12.6 cab's, I ended up disconnecting the bottom cab in the stack.

The combo of a 12.6 and a 15.6, combined with something rather small, say a bare 1x10 would cover a lot of territory. The 12.6 is really too big for my 'acoustic' trio.

That 1x10 is way more friendly to carry into my 'low stage volume, let the FOH do it's thing' weekly gig.

[dug dog]

Lots of good info here. Thanks guys.
I'd forgotten completely about our old friend "power compression" and will be refreshing my memory on that topic right away.

[dug dog]

Originally Posted by ptidwell

check my profile avatar and you will see who manufactures the AX112 3 way.

I did a search and see that there have been some recent threads about these cabs that I somehow managed to miss. More reading to do....

[rpsands]

18sound is one of the few vendors that publishes power compression specs, but it'll give you some ballpark numbers to look at their higher end bass woofers.

[dug dog]

Cool... I have an understanding of the concept now, but would have no idea how to actually calculate the amount of power compression for a specific driver.

RP, how did you arrive at the figure of 450 watts, or is that kind of an educated guestimate?

EDIT: Oops. Dumb question maybe. You're probably using the 18 Sound numbers as a rough guide.

[rpsands]

Yep, just guessing based on numbers I've seen bill throw around and 18sound's numbers. there's another big speaker company that posts them too, maybe JBL?

Ballpark, I'd expect any single woofer that is not a dedicated sub to be suffering close to 3db of power compression by 500 wattss.

I really do not know a ton about the phenomenon other than from experience that woofers like the 3015LF do not get a lot louder when hit over their thermal rating.

There are definite design reasons for using multiple woofers with higher sensitivity, lower space requirements, and sacrificing low end for volume. For example, a pair of 3012HOs can exist in the same internal volume as a single 3012LF, and will be a shedload louder. Also a compelling reason not to worry about 4 ohm vs. 8 ohm issues as much.