Why do I even own an amp?

[Pbassred]

When was the last time any of you were asked by a sound guy what you needed or wanted from the PA??

You wait to be asked? You don't go in with a stage plot or go have a conversation with the guy? I can't imagine NOT shaking the guys' hand before the gig and telling him exactly what the band is all about. Most sound guys I know are musicians anyway.

Before I bought an amp with its own DI, I used to take my own DI box along. For our acoustic guitarist I take a feed back destroyer along.

[Denny Coon]

Ive used only a POD and went out front to hear it. I will have to admit the sound was phenominal, but its just not as good for me to not feel that vibration in the floor and the tone coming out of my cab... Thats what makes playing enjoyable to me!!

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by Foz

Behold the fEARless F115 - might scratch that itch. I don't have one, but I understand is a lot like a 15/6+1 fEARful [which I do own] with softer touch in the mids.



http://bnaaudio.freeforums.net/index...splay&thread=2

Only trouble with that design is its got an inductor in line with the fifteen inch and is therefore phase anomalous with the other stage monitors.
If I get into a situation where I have no bass rig and am forced to use modelling and monitoring (which doesn't get the same feel for me at all)
Maybe I am not used to it or maybe I just don't want to have to get used to it.
My favourite floor monitors where the old 2X12 k120 bass driver with 2441 mid and 2402 bullets. 2 way Active they was and still blow away the modern fifteen inch ones they plonk in front of you, even their biggest midrange horn these days is only a 1.5" with hardly any spout on it in comparison with the old ones, not having it.
So working out my rider the PA hire company will have to supply 2 Mid seventies vintage alnico JBL concert series 2x12 active monitors minimum.

I know they are a bit heavy but i like them, they sound a bit like classic Westlake studio monitors darlings, I will demand that they also provide a Kemper so I can bring the album sound profiles and provide an ante room of freshly strung vintage instruments for my languid perusal:

Then I can just turn up and play, my art unencumbered by the common need for group transport, no more smelly tour trucks towing trailers full of gear and merch for me oh no. That's all so last year darling.
PS I only like the brown M&M's.

[philtoler]

Like a few contributors here I have tried the PA only route but finally settled on using a small amp/cab. Our PA is fed directly from my effects box DI post EQ which gives the sound I want through the main speakers, but leaves me free to adjust my bass rig volume for my own personal monitoring without affecting the balance through the main speakers/monitors.

[ChristianOnBass]

I use my amp to get the sound that I want from me, the bassist. I hope that the sound man replicates it. I only trust my own amp (that I have complete control over) to have anything close to the sound I want. After reading this thread I am thinking to myself, "Am I THAT old? Am I missing something?"

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by ChristianOnBass

I use my amp to get the sound that I want from me, the bassist. I hope that the sound man replicates it. I only trust my own amp (that I have complete control over) to have anything close to the sound I want. After reading this thread I am thinking to myself, "Am I THAT old? Am I missing something?"

If you're playing venues where your rig can carry the room, I don't think it's a bad way to go to ask to not be put in the PA. Some soundmen get really offended at that, though. It can be a touchy subject. But if I were a soundman, I'd say it's just one less thing to think about

OTOH, I don't want to go deaf, and the more I can keep my stage volume reasonable, the less deaf I go.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by ChristianOnBass

I use my amp to get the sound that I want from me, the bassist. I hope that the sound man replicates it. I only trust my own amp (that I have complete control over) to have anything close to the sound I want. After reading this thread I am thinking to myself, "Am I THAT old? Am I missing something?"

It takes a bit of work to get there but hopefully the soundman gets your sound to work in the room. I don't see how age matters unless your hearing is shot.

[lowphatbass]

Originally Posted by ChristianOnBass

I use my amp to get the sound that I want from me, the bassist. I hope that the sound man replicates it. I only trust my own amp (that I have complete control over) to have anything close to the sound I want. After reading this thread I am thinking to myself, "Am I THAT old? Am I missing something?"

This is totally ideal as long as your stage volume isn't too loud for the room. I always ask the FOH tech if I'm giving too much or not enough.

[BawanaRik]

If you're into sci fi the Stainless Steel Rat used micro amps and a vid projection to get the "look".

Maybe not this generation but soon.

Originally Posted by two fingers

I always have good PA support, but I always take my rig. I just like using it. I like "feeling" the bass a little bit behind me. It doesn't hurt that the thing just looks cool too. But you do whatever works for you.

[hsech]

I like to feel the low end. I use a 4x10 cab or a 1x15 with a 2x10. If I only need to monitor with a good PA I just use the 2x10, but when I'm competing with two Marshall half stacks and a miked drummer I usually use a 4x10. I'm 64 and it's a bit much to carry big cabs, but that's why they make wheels and dollies.

[Downunderwonder]

There's a mission critical conflict in wanting to feel low end on stage outside of outdoors or major league venues.

The house low end often bounces off the back wall and ceiling and reaches you out of phase with the sound from the sub. In other words you are standing in a cancellation zone. Yuk.

If you bring a lowend heavy rig and crank it you get your low end back but in a medium venue it's messing with the house low end and instead of you getting yuk the audience gets it. Tough choice.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Tough choice.

No it isn't, I'm in a band for my benefit granted but I'm playing live for the audience. If we suck for whatever reason we won't be getting asked back.

Not you, downunderwonder, but I wonder how many people in this thread and worldwide think that they're being paid to play to a paying audience at a working, profit-making venue and it's all somehow for them. You're part of a larger picture at most gigs and if you're destructive with volume, low end, unreasonable demands or whatever else then you're a problem.

[Foz]

my languid perusal

Guys - new band name - and no we don't get shirts.

[Pbassred]

But if I were a soundman, I'd say it's just one less thing to think about

Clearly you are not a soundman. Having sat on the other side of the desk myself, there is nothing harder than trying to mix a band that is ALL to loud and can't be turn down.

Its the soundman's job to make make a balanced mix that fills the room. In that way the who band sounds better. In order to do that, he wants the ability to control ALL of the elements.

This thread has turned into a "amps are better because soundmen are idiots" thread. Its xmas. Turn the hate down a notch.

[basswave]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

As I see it it is MY responsibility to get my sound out to the audience. That's something that I can't delegate. If there is a decent PA many times you have an incompetent operator or someone who just "knows" what I should sound like. My thoughts on the matter are disregarded.

As was posted earlier, it's better to have too much gear with you than too little. It's unprofessional to do anything else.

+1

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by Pbassred

Clearly you are not a soundman. Having sat on the other side of the desk myself, there is nothing harder than trying to mix a band that is ALL to loud and can't be turn down.

Its the soundman's job to make make a balanced mix that fills the room. In that way the who band sounds better. In order to do that, he wants the ability to control ALL of the elements.

This thread has turned into a "amps are better because soundmen are idiots" thread. Its xmas. Turn the hate down a notch.

Its a concept thing mate! if you are engineering a venue with a band and the instruments are loud enough coming direct off stage.
Then the sound reinforcement engineer is best left reinforcing only those parts of the overall sound that needs reinforcing.

The smaller the venue the more instruments it is wise to remove completely from the PA.

In my job I do both sorts of work, recording studio engineering where I am in total control of a bands sound and sound reinforcement engineering, which is listening to a band play in a venue and working out how best to improve the dispersion and intelligibility of the bands on stage sound to the audience using PA equipment.

I ain't about to start telling drummers that they have to play Vdrum kits instead of acoustic kits so I can properly control the level of each drum
and I am not going to make trumpet players only play with mutes so I can get more of them in the PA.
The same goes for bass rigs, if the bass player has a good solid non boomy bass sound coming off stage, I will be happy to work with that and via high pass filter and EQ maybe only help to slightly disperse those difficult midrange frequencies across the room.
I think you should be able to contribute to a competent bands sound with clever reinforcement, this is not and never should be about replacement.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Pbassred

Clearly you are not a soundman. Having sat on the other side of the desk myself, there is nothing harder than trying to mix a band that is ALL to loud and can't be turn down.

Its the soundman's job to make make a balanced mix that fills the room. In that way the who band sounds better. In order to do that, he wants the ability to control ALL of the elements.

This thread has turned into a "amps are better because soundmen are idiots" thread. Its xmas. Turn the hate down a notch.

LOL! Well here's the deal...if the bass is so loud you can't put it in the PA but it still sounds good out front, who cares if the soundman is controlling it or not?

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Its a concept thing mate! if you are engineering a venue with a band and the instruments are loud enough coming direct off stage.
Then the sound reinforcement engineer is best left reinforcing only those parts of the overall sound that needs reinforcing.

The smaller the venue the more instruments it is wise to remove completely from the PA.

In my job I do both sorts of work, recording studio engineering where I am in total control of a bands sound and sound reinforcement engineering, which is listening to a band play in a venue and working out how best to improve the dispersion and intelligibility of the bands on stage sound to the audience using PA equipment.

I ain't about to start telling drummers that they have to play Vdrum kits instead of acoustic kits so I can properly control the level of each drum
and I am not going to make trumpet players only play with mutes so I can get more of them in the PA.
The same goes for bass rigs, if the bass player has a good solid non boomy bass sound coming off stage, I will be happy to work with that and via high pass filter and EQ maybe only help to slightly disperse those difficult midrange frequencies across the room.
I think you should be able to contribute to a competent bands sound with clever reinforcement, this is not and never should be about replacement.

This - if the bass on stage isn't any louder than the drums, then it's not too loud - plain and simple...


- georgestrings

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

This - if the bass on stage isn't any louder than the drums, then it's not too loud - plain and simple...

True, but in the spirit of the season, I'll admit that some bass players are completely clueless that they're blowing out a venue even if they take it out of the PA.

[backtobass]

I'm also both bassist and soundman for our band when we play small venues.
We all go direct, guitars and bass. No amps on stage at all. All use in ear buds except drummer with a monitor. In fact I'm now agonizing over my next bass purchase because I know that however the sound of the bass itself is, is pretty much how its going to sound.

As far as the volume wars, they are over.

Of course, it helps that I'm running a Mackie 1608 board where I can have up to 6 individual monitor mixes.