Why does my headphones sound like crap?

[NoiseNinja]

I'm not sure this is the right forum, but here I go.
My bass through my amps headphones out sounds like crap, realy thin, harsh and flat. I don't understand this as I'm normaly quite pleased with the sound of my amp coming out of my 15" speaker. And theres normaly nothing wrong with my headphones either. My bass sounds great in my headphones when I go through Logic and emulates of a fliptop amp.

So what's wrong, is there something wrong with the headphones out circuit?

[Jazzdogg]

What's the signal path?

[B-string]

Possibly so, what amp?

[NoiseNinja]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

What's the signal path?

Exactly the same path as when I am not using my headphones: Ibanez Mikro Bass > Black Finger compressor > MXR 10 band EQ > Volume Pedal > LS-2 > A lot of pedals in loop > Hartke Kickback 15 > Headphones Out. And this sounds great when the headphones are not connected and it's going out of the built in 15".
When I record on my computer it's just the Black Finger going into a LPB2ube preamp, going into my mixer and soundcard. And this sounds great in my headphones with the Fliptop emulation in Logic.

Originally Posted by B-string

Possibly so, what amp?

Hartke Kickback 15

[Jeff Scott]

What is the Ω of the headphones? I had a similar issue when I used my AKG K 401 (120Ω) into the headphone jack of my Markbass Minimark, but my Sennheiser HD 280 pro (64Ω) sound just great.

[NoiseNinja]

I use a pair of Sennheiser HD 380 pro: 54 Ω. Maybe this amps phones out need an even lower impedance?

[B-string]

Maybe the signal through through all those pedals is overloading the headphone amp? What does it sound like when you go direct, bass to the amp?

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by NoiseNinja

I use a pair of Sennheiser HD 380 pro: 54 Ω. Maybe this amps phones out need an even lower impedance?

Possibly, but probably not. Look elsewhere for your problem, start by losing all the extra stuff, first, as suggested above.

[geoff_in_nc]

Good headphones should not color the input signal at all. Instrument amp speakers are absolutely designed to color the sound. I think that's the crux of your difference.

I'd venture a guess that the headphone out on the amp bypasses any inadvertent tone shaping that the speaker (and probably to a significantly lesser extent the power amp) gives.

In other words the signal chain up through the amp's preamp section gives you a sound that when put through the headphones is not what you like. The power amp and speaker give you that extra tone shaping that makes it what you want. On your computer, the fliptop emulation incorporates both power amp and speaker sim I'm sure, so it sounds good.

That's my thought anyway.

[Jeff Scott]

Most instrument amps just bleed off the signal at the power amp output to derive a headphone signal.

[Munjibunga]

What brand and model are your headphones?

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

What brand and model are your headphones?

See post #6.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

See post #6.

Oop.

[Son of Bovril]

try taking a post DI line from your amp to the computer without the fliptop emulation, does that sound the same in your headphones as when you run your headphones from the amp?

the eq that makes the speaker in your cab sound good is often not that pleasing through headphones, maybe that is what you are hearing

[Ironderby]

my 8 year old headphones actually give a better tone than my ashdown tourbus 10. the tourbus has no lows what-so-ever

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by geoff_in_nc

Good headphones should not color the input signal at all. Instrument amp speakers are absolutely designed to color the sound.

Correct. Play an IPod through the amp, though the phones it will probably sound OK, though the speaker, not so much. Headphones have flat response, speakers don't. Recorded media sounds good with flat reproduction, live instruments don't. Food for thought for those who think there's any reason for setting EQ to flat.

[guy n. cognito]

I find that, when using headphones through my head, I have to EQ the head to get the tone I want, just as Bill describes above. Don't be afraid to turn knobs to get the tone you want.

[Son of Bovril]

I think you'll find most headphones are anything but flat... It's pretty difficult for those tiny speakers to reproduce proper low end frequencies. Otherwise studio sound engineers would mix on them... know any engineers who mix on ipod headphones?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

I think you'll find most headphones are anything but flat... It's pretty difficult for those tiny speakers to reproduce proper low end frequencies. Otherwise studio sound engineers would mix on them... know any engineers who mix on ipod headphones?

That's not true. Good headphones will run flat much lower than speakers, due to cabin gain. Engineers don't mix on phones because it removes room reflections from the equation, so a perfect mix on phones won't sound the same through speakers. If only iPod buds were used by everyone to listen to all music then that's what mixing would be done on.

The most successful studio monitor of all time is the Yamaha NS-10. It's not because it was a great speaker. Engineers use it to hear how their mixes will sound when listened to by the average listener on their average crappy systems.

[Son of Bovril]

good points always good to learn something new from you bill. now if only I understood what cabin gain is?