Why is my rig so loud?

[Rocks]

I'm only asking this because from everything I've read my rig shouldn't be loud enough to gig a good sized club. We just played a show at a large club in the area, it was wall to wall people (about 500 at peak) and I'm only using a 130 watt head with a 2x10 ampeg SVT 210-HE, and an early 80's Trace Elliot single 15" w/horn - both 8 ohm cabs. Powering this is an old Trace Elliot RAH130 head which is 130 watts @ 4 ohms. The amp was only on about 4 with no PA support (they took me out of FOH because the bass was already permeating the entire building) Both guitarists have 100 watt amps and they were both going through FOH and the drummer is a pounding beast with mic'd drums also going through FOH, yet my bass was well heard everywhere.

I keep reading everyone saying that a bass needs hundreds of watts, most saying 300+ as a minimum for gigging. My only guess is the speakers must be really efficient, any other thoughts?

[Exploiter8]

I played out during the 80's with a Peavey Centurion head (130 watts@4 ohms) and a Peavey 215 Black Widow cab. No pedals or pre-amps, and active basses with lower volume output than my passive one. Plenty loud, good height for hearing myself, and always "just right."

I get by just fine nowadays against two guitars, vocals, and a loud drummer jammin' with a Peavey Basic 112 with an Eminence 4ohm@70 watts with a BDDI as my only pedal/effect.

We're loud, just not stupid loud!

X8

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Rocks

I keep reading everyone saying that a bass needs hundreds of watts, most saying 300+ as a minimum for gigging. My only guess is the speakers must be really efficient, any other thoughts?

As far as your actual output is concerned speakers are far more important than watts, and a decent 1x15/2x10 will give adequate output for most gigs. The room may have contributed. Some rooms just carry the bass very well.

[Rocks]

well I know the TE cab has a 400 watt RMS 15" celestrion and I'm not sure what Ampeg used in thier old 2x10 cabs, this one was made in the good ole USA. I should also mention that the TE cab has ports on the front and the Ampeg cab has ports on the back. I always try and set my rig about 1'-2' from the wall.

PS Bill, quick question. I was reading in another thread about not mixing 2x10's with a 15". would running each cab off a separate head solve the wave issue?

[Mark Olson]

It's just that everyone that says you need a kilowatt to gig is full of it. Really, really full of it. That's for the birds.

I gig with a 20 watt Marshall tube head and a single 15" cab. Normally I'm up against a Fender 4x10" Bassman, and always a loud rock drummer. Last saturday I played against a Gretsch Falcon, which was put through the PA. I didn't go through the PA. I had my amp's volumes at 9 o'clock and had to turn my bass' volume down most of the night because I was too loud. My ears were definitely ringing after the gig, and I already have hearing damage. We were loud.

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Some rooms just carry the bass very well.

I think this is key. Especially with some smaller clubs. I've had 180 watt amps be deafening in smaller rooms with wooden stages, and 300 watt amps be inaudible in poorly-designed rooms with poured-cement stages.

[Deluge Of Sound]

The thread title totally made me do a doubletake.

[Joe.shaffer]

IME EQ has a bit to do with this too. This combined with room design can make all the difference.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Rocks

PS Bill, quick question. I was reading in another thread about not mixing 2x10's with a 15". would running each cab off a separate head solve the wave issue?

2x10/1x15 isn't a bad combination; 4x10/1x15 is. Separate heads won't make any difference.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

It's just that everyone that says you need a kilowatt to gig is full of it. Really, really full of it. That's for the birds.

I gig with a 20 watt Marshall tube head and a single 15" cab. Normally I'm up against a Fender 4x10" Bassman, and always a loud rock drummer. Last saturday I played against a Gretsch Falcon, which was put through the PA. I didn't go through the PA. I had my amp's volumes at 9 o'clock and had to turn my bass' volume down most of the night because I was too loud. My ears were definitely ringing after the gig, and I already have hearing damage. We were loud.

This is VERY dependent on the tone you go for and the playing technique you use. Grindy, midrange oriented, distorted tone with not a lot of deep bass..... very few watts will drive that tone to very high volumes (that's why guitarists need so few watts, and why bassists who dig this tone can play a huge room with a 300 watt SVT.

For those who want it clean and low, and also for those who play slap style with those huge transient hits, you need a speaker cab that can go very low and put out very high volume, which typically means you need some watts to drive it (driving deep low end cleanly is why most PA subwoofers have multi-killowatt power amps driving them).

It depends!

To the OP... those old Trace heads have a very tight low end, and quite a bit of 'distortion' in the midrange (similar to the old Acoustics and GK amps).... both of these things combine to put out a lot of DB's per watt, which is cool if that is the tone you like! My guess is, your cabs are not voiced to go very deep, which typically means they have high SPL in the midrange, which also boosts the overall perceived volume.

[countrybass007]

Different rooms take different amounts of volume to project the bass throughout the room. What works in one venue may not work in the next, but most of us find it easier to always have more than enough. I just worked a sound gig where one bass player maxed out his rig and it still wasn't loud enough. Lots of PA support was the only way he could even be heard. The other bassist and myself didn't even need any PA support to be heard. That's why most of us like extra watts available just in case. We had 600 watts and 1250 watts respectively, enough for that gig with a little to spare.

[Thunderthumbs73]

Originally Posted by Rocks

I'm only asking this because from everything I've read my rig shouldn't be loud enough to gig a good sized club. We just played a show at a large club in the area, it was wall to wall people (about 500 at peak) and I'm only using a 130 watt head with a 2x10 ampeg SVT 210-HE, and an early 80's Trace Elliot single 15" w/horn - both 8 ohm cabs. Powering this is an old Trace Elliot RAH130 head which is 130 watts @ 4 ohms. The amp was only on about 4 with no PA support (they took me out of FOH because the bass was already permeating the entire building) Both guitarists have 100 watt amps and they were both going through FOH and the drummer is a pounding beast with mic'd drums also going through FOH, yet my bass was well heard everywhere.

I keep reading everyone saying that a bass needs hundreds of watts, most saying 300+ as a minimum for gigging. My only guess is the speakers must be really efficient, any other thoughts?

You have may placed (unknowingly) that amp in an advantageous spot on the stage so that it's sonic abilities were maximized, IE, against a wall, or in the corner of two walls. Also the stage may have acted as a resonant chamber and reinforced the bass frequencies. Also, you just may not yet be stone cold deaf like it seems many other bassists are. Small joke.

[stingray56funk]

That is called Trace Elliot watts!


Haha!

[MNAirHead]

you probably have better tenured guitars that don't play twins/plexis and drummers who control cymbols

[Rocks]

I've used this same rig in a variety of places and even though its rated at 130 watts I've never got it past the halfway point on the volume. If I get even close to halfway I'm being asked to turn down. I was actually vibrating bottles off the shelves in one bar.

As for my tone, I go with a deep bass tone and I pick with my fingers. My EQ is set close to flat with a little boost on the bottom end, a very slight boost on the mids and the highs below the flat line.

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

you probably have better tenured guitars that don't play twins/plexis and drummers who control cymbols

Thats funny, but no, the guitarists both have 100+ watt half stacks and the drummer is an iron worker that beats the drums like he is trying to kill them (plus the drums are mic'd)

I know its not my bass, its just a p-bass with stock passive pickups.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

It's just that everyone that says you need a kilowatt to gig is full of it. Really, really full of it. That's for the birds.

I gig with a 20 watt Marshall tube head and a single 15" cab. Normally I'm up against a Fender 4x10" Bassman, and always a loud rock drummer. Last saturday I played against a Gretsch Falcon, which was put through the PA. I didn't go through the PA. I had my amp's volumes at 9 o'clock and had to turn my bass' volume down most of the night because I was too loud. My ears were definitely ringing after the gig, and I already have hearing damage. We were loud.

Although I agree with there being no need for 1KW, I think you're "full of it" if you think you're keeping up with a "loud" drummer with 20 watts and a single 15 - I don't think you know what a loud drummer is, to be honest...



- georgestrings

[HEADLE]

Originally Posted by stingray56funk

That is called Trace Elliot watts!


Haha!

+1

The Power of the Black and Green!

H

[ItsMichaelYeah]

umm... What's the problem with to loud?

[nerfbass]

Maybe it's too loud because you have it turned to eleven. You only turn to eleven when you need that last little push over the cliff.