Why use top heads with preamps and DI's

[kurotenshi]

I know the title is not very explicit but let me explain. More than one time I've read interviews with bass players (talking mostly about metal bass players) where they say something like:

Usually I use «Amp-X» but I always use «preamp-Y» and all my tone comes from the preamp

Amp-X usually is SVT-CL, SVT pro, EBS Fafner, things like that, and preamp-Y is Sansamp ou MXR M80.

My question is, If all their tone comes from the pre, why do they use such top of the line TUBE amp heads?
I can see some point if the FOH sound comes from a mic'ed all tube stack, that way they can the tupe power amp but with a tube emulation preamp and hybrid heads I kind of fail to see the point. Wost than all is when the FOH comes from the preamp's DI.

Wouldn't be easier to use some HiFi SS power amp for stage sound and send the DI sound to FOH?

[Nick Kay]

1) X amp is what they get provided as backline.
2) They're so used to dealing with crappy backline, they just rely on gear before the amp to get their tone happening.
3) They had X amp before getting Y preamp, and still hold on to it.
4) Endorsement deal says X amp has to be on stage for them to get paid.
5) Endorsement deal says they have to say they use Y preamp, but they're really just plugging into X amp.

EDIT: One more, since these are mostly metal bands we're talking about...

6) X amp looks a lot cooler on stage than Y preamp and wedges.

[IvanMike]

Originally Posted by Nick Kay

EDIT: One more, since these are mostly metal bands we're talking about...

6) X amp looks a lot cooler on stage than Y preamp and wedges.

zactly

\m/ \m/

[JimmyM]

i use a sansamp with my 69 svt or 64 b-15n for the following reasons:

1. if i have my amp and it's mic'ed up, it makes a nifty overdrive.

2. even though our contracts almost always say we are in full control of the sound and lights, there's always one a-hole soundman who refuses to let me have a mic, even if i bring it. oh sure, they'll let me set it up, then they ask if they can blend a di with it, and never turn the mic on. so the sansamp makes sure they're not turning my sound into something that sounds more like a modern jazz player.

3. i fly a lot and sometimes the svt on my rider becomes the promoter's son's cheap combo. the sansamp fixes it up nicely.

[kurotenshi]

@JimmyM: I'm recent to TB so I don't know how pro are you but one guy I read saying that was Henkka from Children of Boddom. Don't bands like this travel with their own sound crew?(solving point 2)
Didn't understand point 3..

@Nick: 1 - for the same reason I stated above, the backline their provided is whatever they want right? (if we forget endorsments)
2 - why would a top band like that have a crappy backline?but yes ok its a good point
3 - Still hold to it but if they don't really use it...why bother having it on stage?
4 - Does that hold true even if you can't see the amps? Peter Iwers and Flea, just to state two that come to my mind, use their endorser's amp on a rack backstage
5 - Now that's a valid one...shame on this business behind the art...
6 - Your bashing :P now but seriously I might believe that is true to some guys but as I said before, some guys have just the cabinets on stage and the rest is on racks backstage.

Thanks for the replies, I like to learn how stuff goes on in the pro world

[msquared]

Jimmy's point 3 means that although he asks the venue to provide a bass rig that costs thousands of dollars and weighs over 150lbs, they don't always feel that it's necessary.

And while Nick is singling out metal bands in point 6, I don't know that I'd consider it bashing. Plenty of touring guitarists will make a wall of cabinets with no drivers purely for visual effect and have no problem pointing that out if asked. Playing music generally has some element of theater to it.

[IvanMike]

the wall of amps is absolutely theater now. i have to say i still like the look, but i know darned well there is a combo amp behind the stack or an isolation cab below the stage for the guitar player, and the bass is going direct after some high class preamp or DI. Still, what are you going to have up on stage, clothes dryers?

[Lync]

It has to do with the bass too IMO. Adding a preamp/di can be like having an active bass into your amp. You can have more gain on your signal. Your amp will have a gain control too but sometimes having that little extra in there before that gives more life to your tone. I use my Hartke Bass Attack DI for my passive basses. For my Spectors though, I don't really need it.

[kurotenshi]

Sorry, bashing was the wrong word. (thats what you get when you learn english from TV and internet 'cause the english taught in schools is useless lol)
I also like to see the wall of cabs although I'm kind of getting used to the big cloths with the band's logo like in this pic

In here you have the cloth AND the cabs but some times they just use the cloths.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by kurotenshi

@JimmyM: I'm recent to TB so I don't know how pro are you but one guy I read saying that was Henkka from Children of Boddom. Don't bands like this travel with their own sound crew?(solving point 2)

many do, some don't. i do a lot of shows with oldies acts from the 50's, 60's and 70's, and they don't always have a sound crew. the main guy i work with, bowzer from sha na na, does not. a band like children of bodom, however, almost always has their own soundman, even if they might not tour with their own pa.

@Nick: 1 - for the same reason I stated above, the backline their provided is whatever they want right? (if we forget endorsments)

all backline requests are subject to availability. most backline companies have ampeg, gk, hartke, eden, or swr. rarely do they have anything else unless they're huge.

2 - why would a top band like that have a crappy backline?but yes ok its a good point

it isn't just top bands who rent backline. besides, not all bands who are in what you might think are top positions make an assload of money.

3 - Still hold to it but if they don't really use it...why bother having it on stage?

looks.

[Bassmec]

This all gets back to the primordial question "does a very subtile top quality valve emulation sound slightly better via an all tube amp?"
Answer: Probably!

[muddycreek]

There's also an actual reason, sometimes... it's just harder to find an all-tube power section only.

I kept borrowing my brother in law's Boogie 400+ and running my then Alembic F-1X preamp into the power section. Best tube amp I've ever played through. The Boogie's own preamp section has too much edge for me.

[pasta4lnch]

fwiw I use a SABDDI in front of my LMII. I just like the way it sounds! I typically use the BDDI for my tone and the LM's EQ to compensate for the room if needed.

It's nice not to have to mess w/ my settings on the BDDI - I'm glad I didn't go w/ a pre-amp/poweramp set up. Plus I DO like the sound of the LMII and occasionally use it on it;s own . . .ymmv

[PunkSweeper]

This is why my dream rig is some powerful pre(s) and signal processing...and a wall of this stuff.


Namely, the VT4889ADP's and the VT4880ADP's.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by IvanMike

what are you going to have up on stage, clothes dryers?

Last time a saw a Rush pic Geddy had a couple of BBQ chicken roasters behind him, complete with spinning, cooked birds

[IvanMike]

Originally Posted by muddycreek

There's also an actual reason, sometimes... it's just harder to find an all-tube power section only.

I kept borrowing my brother in law's Boogie 400+ and running my then Alembic F-1X preamp into the power section. Best tube amp I've ever played through. The Boogie's own preamp section has too much edge for me.

there is that. i had great fun playing some of my favorite preamps into the power section of an svt 2 pro. The svt preamp was ok (IMO), but i loved playing my alembic, demeter, and even SWR through the glowing power tubes. The SWR was a different animal altogether when run through a tube power section.