Wire (FX loop) routing help? Sansamp RBI + GK1001RBII

[AciDBatH666]

I recently got the last piece I was looking for for my rack. I'm new to rack gear and am used to just simple pedals on my old guitar setup, and even with my current bass setup.
I have a Sansamp Bass Driver DI pedal and I was running it bass-> BDDI -> SWR Workingman's 4004.

Now with this new gear (head + Sansamp RBI + compressor) I'm trying to figure out the FX Loop. I've tried routing it how I think it should be run - GK FX Send -> Sansamp input -> Sansamp Output -> Compressor in/out -> GK 1001RBII FX return.
I never used the FX loops on any of my old guitar gear, just used a few pedals straight into the input jack. I've done a bunch of searches but can't find anything really clear cut to help me figure it out. The pdf files for the head aren't really clear either. When I run it how I think I'm supposed to I get a pretty loud hum thru my speakers but I ran it a few alternate ways and got rid of some of it.
I've also think that I read that the Sansamp RBI was designed to be not be run thru the fx loop? Can anyone shed some insight here?

Here's what I've got right now


And here's the two routing charts I found for the RBI



Any help is appreciated. I'm pretty inexperienced with rack gear and just need a little insight. Any questions shoot em out... Whatever helps me organize this wiring frenzy

[JimmyM]

i never run anything through any effects loops ever ever ever. everything goes bass > effects > amp input, whether it's made to go into the amp input or the loop. simple, effective, and not near the giant pita that using a loop is.

the one exception i make to never using the loop is plugging a preamp into the effects return to defeat the preamp in a head that i didn't like its preamp. other than that, straight in always.

[onosson]

The preamp EQ and voicing sections of the GK are pretty much duplicated by the Sansamp itself - I would use the Sansamp straight into the Effects Return on the amp as JimmyM describes.

I have a GK 700 RBII which is the same as the 1001 but less power, and the original stomp box Sansamp pedal, which is pretty much the same as the rackmount version. I always found that using both sets of EQ options just mucked things up for the most part.

I would also put the compressor first in your chain, although that can be a matter of taste. Used with light compression, you can get a lot more out of your EQ options.

[Floyd Eye]

I run my RBI in front of the amp. FX loops are useless to me.

[JTE]

I wouldn't use either of those in the FX loop. The BDDI is an EQ/pre-amp/DI that's designed for instrument level signals. Running it in the FX loop gives it line level signals, and probably incorrect impedances. You can run it bass>BDDI>FX return, IF you want to use its pre-amp instead of the GK's. If you want it as an effect to be switched in and out, run it in front of the BDDI. The compressor in the loop only serves to compress the pre-amped, EQ'd signal. Running it in front of the GK allows the compressor to work on the bass's natural signal, then use the GK's EQ to shape the sound. Running it in the FX loop means if you boost any frequencies with the amp's EQ, THOSE frequencies will trigger the compressor.

FX loops are generally best used with time-delay effects where you're not adding a lot of noise (like pre-amps and compressors do- anything with an amplifier stage adds some noise). An FX loop is simply an interruption of the signal path between the pre-amp and the power amp. It's great for some FX, but not others.

John

[AciDBatH666]

Thanks for the info, this is all really helpful. I didn't realize I could just use the FX return and not use the send.
I'm going to try different configurations, but how can I run the Compressor first?
Do I literally plug into the compressor first, then -> Sansamp ->GK FX return?
It just sucks because the compressor's inputs are all in the back. Just curious if I could run the compressor thru the Effects Loop of the Sansamp. I don't really want to do that, just seeing about my options.

[AciDBatH666]

Ran it several ways, at least now the loud hum is gone. As opposed when I was running it out thru the FX Send on the GK.
I just have to determine if I want to bypass the eq on the GK or not. I can't really tinker with it when we get our other practice storage unit again. I can't do jack in my apartment to get a "REAL" idea of how it sounds until I can play it at a decent level.
The compressor isn't hooked up at all right now. I still haven't gotten to jam with this new gear at a reasonable level (remember, apartment), and there aren't any headphone out jacks on any of it unlike my SWR head. So I'll add the compressor later once I get used to the sound without it so I can give a good idea of how much to dial it in to.
Still gotta figure out how to wire it tho.

[BrentSimons]

With the RBI you may find the compressor overkill. Sansamps try to mimic tubes(Sort of) and the natural compression that occurs with them. Many of their manuals state you may not need compression. Just a thought,
Brent

[onosson]

Originally Posted by BrentSimons

With the RBI you may find the compressor overkill. Sansamps try to mimic tubes(Sort of) and the natural compression that occurs with them. Many of their manuals state you may not need compression. Just a thought,
Brent

+1

[tech21nyc]

You have quite a number of potential options in terms of setting up your bass rig.You need to make some decisions first.

If you are happy with the sound of your GK amp and just wish to use the RBI as an alternate sound you can use the hookup diagram above. You would plug into the RBI first and use the unaffected direct output and run that to you GK's preamp. At this point you have your bass feeding both preamps. To interface with your bass amps' power section you would need an aby box that would allow you to toggle both channels to one output. This would involve taking the preamp out of you bass amp to one channel of the aby box and the out of the RBI to the other channel of the aby and the out of the aby to the effects return of your bass amp. You CAN just run the RBI into the front end of your amp but it would be best to set your amp for a more flat response otherwise each preamp's EQ will be fighting the other. You would also need to take care to set the RBI's output for unity gain so as not to overload the front end of you bass amp.

If you want to just bypass your GK's preamp you would just plug directly into the RBI and run the RBI's output to the efx return of your bass amp.

Another option is to use the RBI as a discrete preamp to your PA system. This way there is no need to use an extra DI or mic your bass amp. You just plug into the RBI and run the unaffected out to your bass amp to monitor your bass on stage and send the RBI's signal to the board.

In general if you are using the SansAmp tube emulation circuitry you will probably not need to use a compressor as others have stated.