Would this amp + head combination work?

sethlow3 · #1 08-26-2011, 02:20 AM

Just curious... I've been running a setup of a Gallien Krueger 1001RB and Epifani 310UL series 1 for 7 years. I blew a speaker in December 2010, replaced it, and now I blew two more. I have been playing on the road for 6 years straight almost every night with this setup and it finally blew to smithereens. It did very well up until recently.

The GK1001RB is 750 watts at 4ohms
The Epifani 310UL can handle 750WRMS and 1800watt peak at 5.3 ohms
Was this an ill advised setup?
What would be the best replacement for the Epifani?

I'd like the most compact/light/loud setup available to match with the GK head ASAP!!!
I am heavily debating on an Avatar B410 NEO which says it can handle 1000 watts RMS total...
Or would it be more logical to go with a pair of 8ohm 15's or something similar...

WhoDidTheElf · #2 08-26-2011, 02:27 AM

While it says it can handle 750 watts RMS, that is the thermal limit. Those speakers are more likely to give out mechanically at closer to 300 watts. (Cone traveling too far or other various mechanical problems)

If you want the most volume, more speakers is the way to go. A single 4ohm 4x10 won't cut it and you'll end up blowing it again. Best would be to go with 2 8ohm cabs (two 4x10's or two 2x12's or two 1x15's, ect...) this way you don't have to push them nearly as hard to get much more volume.

Even a single 8ohm cab wouldn't be a noticeable drop in volume compared to the same cab in 4ohms. Takes 10x the watts to double your volume, doubling your watts won't do so much... So if you can only afford one cab now, I would say it would still be better to roll with the single 8 ohm cab.

sethlow3 · #3 08-26-2011, 02:47 AM

Interesting... I know way more about music, bass, bass players etc... than I do about amps. I figured at the time that the highest watts I could get from a single 4ohm cab would yield me the loudest/lightest setup. So what you're saying I really wanna do to get the most out of the GK is to get two 8 ohm cabs so it doesn't have to work as hard? Makes sense I suppose, but what cabs?

I like neos because they are light stand alone setups, but it sounds like two ceramic cabs may be the way to go to save money. I hate how ceramic 410's are 100lbs, but I have seen some lighter 15's these days.

I just want as much volume and efficiency as I can get from the 1001RB. Any recommendations? For example, I saw some used (ceramic) Epifani PS15's for $250 each at 50 lbs each. That would be a 4 ohm load of 800watts total and my amp would be running the 750 at 4ohms. I like PUNCH a lot, but kinda miss the low end I got out of 15's... Or should I go all GKNEO and match things up? decisions decisions... Any suggestions welcome... like maybe even a NEO 210 and NEO 115... HELP! sigh...

WhoDidTheElf · #4 08-26-2011, 12:07 PM

To get the most volume out of your set up you want as much speaker surface area as you can get, i.e. more speakers. Not so much that your 1001RB won't have to work as hard as your speakers won't have to work nearly as hard to get the volume since each will be getting half the watts, assuming they're both 8 ohm cabs and of the same speaker config. (two 2x12's or two 4x10's ect...)

As far as what cabs to go with, best bet is try them all out and see what you like. Also size of the speaker (15" compared to a 10") doesn't mean anything about how much low end it will produce, so don't pigeonhole yourself into getting a certain speaker size just because you think it will produce more low end or more punch or what have you.

If you want like, you can check out the GK Neo series or the Markbass Cabs. The TB classifieds are a wonderful place to find used gear a great deals.

Also, mixing and matching speaker configs (2x10 and a 1x15) can result in some not so great set ups. You can run into phasing issues and even loose volume. If you're running a 4x10 and 1x15 set up you even risk blowing out your 1x15 as well. So unless you've tried the mixed cab set up before hand, its best to stick with matching cabs.

Dustin Teel · #5 08-26-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

To get the most volume out of your set up you want as much speaker surface area as you can get, i.e. more speakers.

That's not exactly true...

Air movement is = to number of speakers X speaker diameter squared.

Excluding factors such as xmax (cone vibration) 2x15s, for example, will be noticably louder than, say 410s.

WhoDidTheElf · #6 08-26-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin Teel

That's not exactly true...

Air movement is = to number of speakers X speaker diameter squared.

Excluding factors such as xmax (cone vibration) 2x15s, for example, will be noticably louder than, say 410s.

I was just trying to simplify it. To really get the most volume out of your rig, there are so many factors your head would probably explode.

RickenBoogie · #7 08-26-2011, 02:46 PM

A pair of 8 ohm 2x12's would certainly do the trick. GK Neo 212's, a pair of them, and your problem is solved, permanently.

makohund · #8 08-26-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin Teel

That's not exactly true...
Air movement is = to number of speakers X speaker diameter squared.

Where does that formula come from?

Isn't it supposed to be Vd = surface area x Xmax?

So isn't he a lot closer than that formula gets, if one is "excluding factors such as xmax"?

sethlow3 · #9 08-26-2011, 04:03 PM

I love talkbass! Thanks for the info!

RickenBoogie, why would you recommend two 12's? I don't know what it is myself, but I am leaning on two 15's perhaps because it's seems a bit more versatile for my needs. For example, I am at a casino gig right now, and would only need one 15 at most to cover the low stage volume (I am not even using an amp this gig, Just a DI!). However in a couple of weeks I'll be playing an extremely large club where two 15's would work much better.

As far as difference between a 410 and 115, I get the surface area volume thing, but I used to have a trace elliot 410 and 115 setup, and when I used the 15 alone things just seemed deeper, whereas the 410's had a midrange punch thing going on. I have heard others echo this, but I am not sure if it was me or the bass stuff I was reading then almost 10 years ago that influenced that opinion. I just remember liking the lower weight of the 115 better.

So I have had my eye on a few cabs right now...
1.) GK Neo's so everything looks all nice and matched
2.) Avatar Neos (kinda pricy if bought new from shop and no return policy)
3.) Epifani PS15's two of them used at $250 a piece (ceramic)

RickenBoogie · #10 08-26-2011, 05:06 PM

I'm not suggesting 2 12's, I'm suggesting 2 2x12's.

WhoDidTheElf · #11 08-27-2011, 01:26 AM

I'd say if you like the tone of your current Epifani's you might wanna try out the two fifteens.

I'm not a fan of GK cabs, so I won't really comment. I haven't had the chance to ever play any Avatar cabs, yet people rave about the 3-way 15 cab that they make.

As far as the Epifani's go, I have actually had the chance to play a PS115, don't know if that's the 15 you're looking at, but from what I got from it, it was quite a nice cab. Had a bunch of punch, but was a little dark sounding, though it could have been the head I was playing with as it was making everything sound a bit dark. The mids were present though they started to fall off a bit as you climbed up.

sethlow3 · #12 08-27-2011, 05:47 PM

It was the PS115 I was talking about. Still uncertain of what brand to go with. Well RickenBoogie, why 2 2x12's?

**B-string** · #13 08-27-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin Teel

That's not exactly true...

Air movement is = to number of speakers X speaker diameter squared.

Excluding factors such as xmax (cone vibration) 2x15s, for example, will be noticably louder than, say 410s.

Wrong and wrong. Sorry dude, hit up the FAQs they are a wonderful resource.

RickenBoogie · #14 08-28-2011, 08:13 AM

First, because it's modular. You can use a single 212 for most gigs, and get about what you got with 3 10's. Then, use both, for a 4 12 rig that could keep up with anything. Not sure where this is going, you asked for suggestions, and a pair of 2x12's is my suggestion. You obviously need more than what your 3x10 rig could give you.

sethlow3 · #15 08-30-2011, 01:27 PM

bump... suggestions anyone?

**B-string** · #16 08-30-2011, 07:44 PM

I'm with RickenBoogie, you like neo's, you like the punch of 10"s, you miss the rumble from 15"s. Get a pair of G-K NEO 212 II's. More output than a pair of 15"s, with a nice rumble (let them break in) and most of the punch of 10"s. The G-K NEO 412 is my go to cab these days. If I did it again, I would have a pair of 212s. Used 15"s for decades and can't see going back!

sethlow3 · #17 08-31-2011, 08:55 PM

wave rider · #18 08-31-2011, 09:24 PM

Look up the fEarful threads; 15/6/1 do it yourself cabinets that take advantage of the Eminence 3015LF driver and 18Sound (I think) midrange.

Most folks find one of these cabs sufficient; two stacked, well...

I've also heard that the fEarful cab really sings with some wattage and have always wondered if the 1001RB might be a sweet match for it.

=wr=

sethlow3 · #19 09-02-2011, 11:15 PM

I've seen the fearful stuff. It's too expensive and there's a wait.

Mingo Sanders · #20 09-02-2011, 11:45 PM

If a pair of 4x10's isn't practical for you, I agree with the suggestion for a pair of 2x12's.