Would you be interested in approx. 25lb 4x10 or 16lb 2x10 (sound in the vein of a Ber

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

I don't understand how the port tuning frequency is decided on.

My rule of thumb is that the port tuning has to be somewhere around 40 Hz. I always start there when modeling a driver in a box. Too much lower, and the port doesn't do much to improve the response of the cab. plus leaves a hole in the response between the cone and port tuning frequencies with typical drivers. Too much higher, and you run the risk of over-excursion.

How much higher you can go is somewhat of a judgement call, but I'd say that if you have to push the tuning too far up, then it's time to try a different driver. In the other thread, Duke recommended a higher tuning. I'd trust whatever he says about this.

Originally Posted by astack

The 8PR200, OTOH, is great but kind of has to be forced to work as a bass speaker. Mike and GB figured it out, but there's not a lot of room for error there. Even fdeck had problems getting it worked out.

Mine is still a work in progress. I gig it, but only with the preamp that shall not be named. I think that I have to try again with flared ports. I was interested to read what Duke says about flaring both ends of the port. I never thought of that, and will add it to my list of cool things learned from the TB experts.

[Tactician]

Flaring both ends of the ports is interesting - especially when it comes to calculating the tuning. I know the algorythms are out there but on a real cab things may be different - which is probably why you don't see too many flared ports - except on commercial PAs and the like.

A close friend puts a big port in the cab made from house gutter drainage tube (about 2.5" dia) - and then he can add another short section that slides into the first part - he pretty much then tunes by ear - moving it in and out until is sounds right - then checks on an ocillascope. This method does show up that the first WINIsd calculations he does still need some extra work when installed. (Judging from the numbers of terrible DJ pa's I heard - not enough work is done on cab tuning! Can't these guys hear their PA just seems to be hitting ONE bass note all day!!)

I have heard of putting the port tube on the outside and cutting pieces off until it sounds right - presumably, when it sounds worse you go back to the dimesions of the right one and reinstall with a new piece of pipe? On the inside? Doesn't that reduce the cab volume by the pipe volume - do you just ignore that bit?! Anyone know about this way of tuning?

BTW - FDECK its interesting to see you tuning to 40 and BF saying he goes for about 45 - not far off the 42hz you get from a bottom E is it? Shows how little of that 42 we hear - much more of the harmonics. Or ma I glaringly wrong in that observation? Think my Ashdown 4x10 was tuned up at 65hz according to my calcs with WINIsd. Anyone used a High Pass Filter set at about 50hz to avoid over excusion?

[Tactician]

Love that reply.

Some bass players just can't wait to gig with those folded horn cabs they got from the cinema close out sale. They may be 8 feet high, and 5 feet deep - but just listen to that bass! "It's like listening to the artillary, a spaceship explosion, and Hogwarts blowing up!" (Isn't that why the cinema bought it in the first place?)

Could this be the start of a new thread? - Contra Compact Cabinets! "On the road with a 7 ton truck of gear!" OR "My LIfe in Traction and Why I'm Not Gigging Anymore"

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by astack

The 12PR300 is actually another good option. Available in 4, 8, or 16 ohm and it has the GB stamp of approval. I'm thinking 3.5 cf tuned to 50 Hz. That gives you 60 Hz f3. Make it a vertical 2x12 and you've got a winner.
Deltalites or Basslites in a 2cf sealed box is another option. Lots of output in a small box and it's supposedly more tube amp friendly. And indecently models the closest to an actual fridge of these options.

If that's the DELTALITE II 2512 you're typing about there, major cool in terms of affordability and trunk fit, broken into a pair of sealed 1 cu. ft. boxes. What's the protocol for that, loosely stuff with fiberfill? Small enough to make of 1/2" ply? Any bracing or reinforcement needed?

The 12PR300 is available in 16 ohms. Wonder if 1 cu. ft. would do them for individual sealed cabs? Somewhere online it says my AIMS heads are actually 5 ohms. So 3 of these cabs stacked with 16 ohm drivers wired parallel for 5.33 ohms, yeah. And I'll bet I could fit those plus both heads (one for a spare) in my trunk.

That's two trips of pure ugly (thinking especially of those TBers who hate the look of a head wider than the cab, hey, this one's for YOU).

All your solutions seem way better than the expedient of re-using these 1 cu. ft. 10" MDF PA cabs, or the previous, leaving the spare tire and trunk liner at home to squeeze the MM 115RH in there.

I am sorely in need of the DUH cabinet course, if such exists and has a URL. The more I read, the more it seems factory cabs are a rip: "Let's sell 'em a great amp cheap, then they'll buy a matching cab for a fortune, bwahaha!"

It's such a kneejerk consumer thing, like selling living room furniture. I'm amazed furniture stores didn't stock matching pianos back in the day. "Sorry, Ma'am, only the Baldwin comes in avocado."

"You want the matching 115 for $899 with that? Gotta match that name plate, you know. And it's wider than the head, see there?"

See, the problem with the economy is that salesmanship hasn't kept up with the goodies. I mean, everyone buys a Harley for how they look on it. I have yet to walk into a dealership, have that sweet country girl sit me down on a Hawg, slap a black skull-and-cross-festooned half helmet on my head, hand me a polaroid of all that manliness on a clipboard with a sales contract and sweetly say "I'll need your OK there by the X."

I'm thinkin' hey GC, what ya got? 'Cause we sling a Jaco model off an 8-foot strap around our man's neck, stand him up in front of the stack du jour, flashbulbs go off, here's the clipboard, Jack.

Now what were we scrivening about?

[Hawkbone]

Guys, this is all very interesting but I'd like to subscribe to this thread to follow developments with the Revsound lightweight cabs, not to sift through endless posts about cab design in general.

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by astack

Now, if you're serious about shrinking your rig, the 5FE120 5" speaker models great in a 6" cube But you need 8 to keep up with a 15PR400 output wise.

/OT

Man! Eight six-inch cubes? That's WEARABLE! Who's the new Bootsy on the block? HAH!

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by Hawkbone

Guys, this is all very interesting but I'd like to subscribe to this thread to follow developments with the Revsound lightweight cabs, not to sift through endless posts about cab design in general.

Oops. Sorry. Well, at least it wasn't ALL about cab design in general.

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by basswave

Would you be interested in approx. 25lb 4x10 or 16lb 2x10 (sound in the vein of a Bergantino & Epi)

I'd be a potential customer only if the cabs fit within certain tight dimensional constraints. Weight is only half the problem for those with severe portage limitations. E.g., MBIII bungeed to my motorcycle seat, Steinberger bag over the shoulder, off we go to a Real Book gig. A slight squeeze smaller might give you a bunch of buyers you didn't have before. A half pound more off the weight, not so.

[Chef]

Well said.

I've come in here and asked folks to stay on topic more than once.

Originally Posted by Hawkbone

Guys, this is all very interesting but I'd like to subscribe to this thread to follow developments with the Revsound lightweight cabs, not to sift through endless posts about cab design in general.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Chef

I've come in here and asked folks to stay on topic more than once.

For those who want to continue the "off topic" conversation:
Would you be interested in talking about how you'd build a 25lb 4x10 or 16lb 2x10?

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by Chef

Well said.

I've come in here and asked folks to stay on topic more than once.

Suggest you close this thread -- given the topic is "Would you be interested in approx. 25lb 4x10 or 16lb 2x10" anything beyond a yes or no would, technically, be off topic. The comment "I'd like to subscribe to this thread to follow developments with the Revsound lightweight cabs" would make this a commercial thread, wouldn't it? If the thread was an ongoing ad for one commercial producer?

Genuinely, it would clear up the ambiguity of what is and is not on topic if OP opened a new thread with an actual discussion topic in it.

ltt

[Tactician]

Yep I agree - its a pretty dry question - "would you buy this idea if it was on sale?" We are riffing and rambling on the answers because it really only has two answers - yes or no - as you say, anything else is off topic. If you then add that bloody dance of the seven veils - "I can't show you anything because I havn't got my patents sorted". Well there's nothing to see, nothing to talk about, and you can't pull the trigger on the deal because it hasn't been built. So you can't buy one. Duh!

Do I want a light powerfull cab for bass - YES - but NO I won't buy it. Am I done?

[Chef]

There are pictures. There are sound clips.
No, it's not on sale, it's still in r-n-d trying to meet weight goals.


Good Grief.

[Hawkbone]

seriously dudes, why is everyone getting their backs up about this thread being limited to the Revsound cab?

They have a prototype that TBers have seen, touched and tried out. R&D is continuing. They may or may not end up with a market ready product but, IMO at least, the topic of this thread is the Revsound lightweight cab.

Roadkill has a thread to discuss how others would approach the problem. I'm a geek engineer and wish I had time to dig into cab design and contribute to that thread, but I don't. If someone actually develops a prototype based on those discussions, I'll take great interest in it.

There is now a dedicated lightweight cab design discussion thread which anyone can participate in, and a Revsound lightweight cab thread which anyone can participate in. I don't see the problem and I don't get the hurt feelings.

[basswave]

Originally Posted by Hawkbone

seriously dudes, why is everyone getting their backs up about this thread being limited to the Revsound cab?

They have a prototype that TBers have seen, touched and tried out. R&D is continuing. They may or may not end up with a market ready product but, IMO at least, the topic of this thread is the Revsound lightweight cab.

Thank You Hawkbone (Seriously)

You nailed it.

David felt the need to address some of the builders/designers on this thread.

I felt that Revsound really put it out there and allowing about 20 bassists to do whatever they wanted to it.

I have not heard anything negative yet for anyone in person.

Honestly I thought folks would be stoked and not so combative but hey...To each their own.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by basswave

Honestly I thought folks would be stoked and not so combative but hey...To each their own.

Again, it's the nature of how you started the thread -- you didn't give it a topic. And the replies were basically "yes" and maybe "it can't be done." Nothing combative there.

Originally Posted by Hawkbone

seriously dudes, why is everyone getting their backs up about this thread being limited to the Revsound cab?

...IMO at least, the topic of this thread is the Revsound lightweight cab.

...I don't see the problem and I don't get the hurt feelings.

So this is an advertisement for the Revsound lightweight cab, that is still in development, but people aren't allowed to discuss the possibilities of the technology? Some people might be frustrated at being told they have to stop taking the discussion where it seems to want to go -- which is understandable. Hurt feelings? I didn't get that sense from anything going on...

Originally Posted by Chef

There are pictures. There are sound clips.
No, it's not on sale, it's still in r-n-d trying to meet weight goals.

Seems perfectly logical to me, then, that arguments over the likelihood of their success are completely fair game. If only rah-rah posts are allowed, then it's just a big advertisement for Revsound, and for something they haven't even produced yet (the final product weight, obviously).

Here's how easy it is: start a thread with the title "Player experiences and comments on the new Revsound lightweight proto." Done. The genie got out of the bottle in this thread, and you know you can't put him back in...

[Hawkbone]

lol, now we're OT about being OT.

So the problem is the original title given the thread? Can it be renamed? Or yeah, start a new one with the intended focus clearly stated.

For the record, I don't see it as being an ad/rah-rah thread at all. From my perspective, I'm only interested in hearing developments/reviews on this cab, or even a competing product for that matter. If the reviews are negative, then I'll lose interest and move on. If positive, I'll see about getting one. To be clear - I don't know any of the people involved here and have no dog in the race. I'm simply interested in hearing what folks have to say about this cab or potential competitor cabs at a similar point of development.

My apologies for adding to the OT discussion. Mouth/fingers off, ears/eyes on.

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by Tactician

Flaring both ends of the ports is interesting - especially when it comes to calculating the tuning. I know the algorythms are out there but on a real cab things may be different - which is probably why you don't see too many flared ports - except on commercial PAs and the like.

A close friend puts a big port in the cab made from house gutter drainage tube (about 2.5" dia) - and then he can add another short section that slides into the first part - he pretty much then tunes by ear - moving it in and out until is sounds right - then checks on an ocillascope. This method does show up that the first WINIsd calculations he does still need some extra work when installed. (Judging from the numbers of terrible DJ pa's I heard - not enough work is done on cab tuning! Can't these guys hear their PA just seems to be hitting ONE bass note all day!!)

I have heard of putting the port tube on the outside and cutting pieces off until it sounds right - presumably, when it sounds worse you go back to the dimesions of the right one and reinstall with a new piece of pipe? On the inside? Doesn't that reduce the cab volume by the pipe volume - do you just ignore that bit?! Anyone know about this way of tuning?

BTW - FDECK its interesting to see you tuning to 40 and BF saying he goes for about 45 - not far off the 42hz you get from a bottom E is it? Shows how little of that 42 we hear - much more of the harmonics. Or ma I glaringly wrong in that observation? Think my Ashdown 4x10 was tuned up at 65hz according to my calcs with WINIsd. Anyone used a High Pass Filter set at about 50hz to avoid over excusion?

Good point. Engineering live we always dump everything below 40hz out on all the graphics. RE the DJs...no they don't

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by Tactician

Here in the UK people are way more covered for patent and copyright infringemnets than they realise. However not all countries and companies respect the law and you can find youself taking onthe might of a nation that doesn't respect the law - you know who I mean. Look at what happened to the Ebtech Swiss Army cable tester - got cloned by at least two products and completely outsold by these products coming in at 1/4 the price.

So we completely understand your reticence to devulge info - but once its out there don't expect the patents to work with foreign imports. Its more about getting outstanding product out there, building a rep, and building a relationship with your target niche.

With you.

[basswave]

Well you will see REVsound 210s in spring of Bass Gear Magazine.

I'm looking forward towards the review.
Cheers