Would you be interested in approx. 25lb 4x10 or 16lb 2x10 (sound in the vein of a Ber

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by basswave

Well you will see REVsound 210s in spring of Bass Gear Magazine.

I'm looking forward towards the review.
Cheers

Me, too!

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by DukeLeJeune

Hi David,

Just for the sake of clarity and continuity, let me mention again the statement of yours that I disagree with:

"The new drivers with lower or even equal cone mass due to cone/surround materials and the strength and tortional ridgidity they're afforded allow them to move the air with lower cone travel..."

My position is that, assuming competent woofer design and pistonic cone behavior, SPL at low frequencies is strictly a function of cone area times excursion. Improved materials simply do not allow a woofer to move more air with less cone travel.



It is true that the lighter the cone and/or stronger the magnet, the more acceleration that can be applied to the cone... but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Let me explain:

Where does acceleration become a limiting factor? Down in the bass region? No... up at the top-end of the driver's range. Heavy cones and long, heavy voice coils don't go up as high as light cones and short, lightweight voice coils (inductance is a factor too). We see where acceleration becomes the limiting factor in the roll-off at the top of the driver's frequency response curve.



Of course X-max isn't the only thing that matters, otherwise we'd all be using subwoofer drivers.

Improved cone/surround materials do not somehow increase the linear air-moving capabilty of a speaker at low frequencies unless x-max is also increased (and yes there are different ways of measuring x-max; the Klippel curve gives the most apples-to-apples comparison). As I stated before, the amount of air that a woofer moves is a function of cone area times excursion. Improved materials may offer improved performance in other areas, but do not allow them to somehow "move the air with lower cone travel". The way to do that is, use a bigger cone. Or horn load it, a la Bill Fitzmaurice.

Duke, Quote Ben Franklin and you have my attention. He didn't practice what he preached, but he was brilliant. Don't know Bill Fitzmaurice. The new materials do indeed change everything. And, I offered the repostulation of Newton's second law as a hypothesis but Newtonian physics are far from truth anymore. Fact.

Dinky Dawson, who did the first Steely Dan tour starting in Sturbridge! MA recieved a call during soundcheck from 14 miles away (where the Boston Symphony Orchestra was performing) asking him to turn down. Dinky was using 200 2x5" cabs that he designed and built. The drivers were from Belgium. They worked.
Ken Forsythe, EAW went from replicating horn loaded JBW 4560 cabs on steroids to the front loaded 6,7,8 series front loaded boxes that are industry standards for FOH.
As soon as you question whether something can work or be real without testing, tasting, listening, seeing, or thinking how it may be.....well, your life is done. Nothing can ever be bigger, better, make you excited. Bang bang you're dead, and you don't even know it.

The best cab is the cab that makes you sing, not just speak. It doesn't matter what names on the front or who made it. I still choose to use my ears. And that's that.

Respect,
David

[Balog]

Ok, the point at which you claim Newtonian physics are no longer true is the point at which you officially pass into snake oil salesman territory.

[1n3]

Originally Posted by dawind99

Duke, Quote Ben Franklin and you have my attention. He didn't practice what he preached, but he was brilliant. Don't know Bill Fitzmaurice. The new materials do indeed change everything. And, I offered the repostulation of Newton's second law as a hypothesis but Newtonian physics are far from truth anymore. Fact.

Dinky Dawson, who did the first Steely Dan tour starting in Sturbridge! MA recieved a call during soundcheck from 14 miles away (where the Boston Symphony Orchestra was performing) asking him to turn down. Dinky was using 200 2x5" cabs that he designed and built. The drivers were from Belgium. They worked.
Ken Forsythe, EAW went from replicating horn loaded JBW 4560 cabs on steroids to the front loaded 6,7,8 series front loaded boxes that are industry standards for FOH.
As soon as you question whether something can work or be real without testing, tasting, listening, seeing, or thinking how it may be.....well, your life is done. Nothing can ever be bigger, better, make you excited. Bang bang you're dead, and you don't even know it.

The best cab is the cab that makes you sing, not just speak. It doesn't matter what names on the front or who made it. I still choose to use my ears. And that's that.

Respect,
David

[bongomania]

Ha, I wasn't really interested in this thread before, but the entertainment value just went up!

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by dawind99

Duke, Quote Ben Franklin and you have my attention. He didn't practice what he preached, but he was brilliant. Don't know Bill Fitzmaurice. The new materials do indeed change everything. And, I offered the repostulation of Newton's second law as a hypothesis but Newtonian physics are far from truth anymore. Fact.

Dinky Dawson, who did the first Steely Dan tour starting in Sturbridge! MA recieved a call during soundcheck from 14 miles away (where the Boston Symphony Orchestra was performing) asking him to turn down. Dinky was using 200 2x5" cabs that he designed and built. The drivers were from Belgium. They worked.
Ken Forsythe, EAW went from replicating horn loaded JBW 4560 cabs on steroids to the front loaded 6,7,8 series front loaded boxes that are industry standards for FOH.
As soon as you question whether something can work or be real without testing, tasting, listening, seeing, or thinking how it may be.....well, your life is done. Nothing can ever be bigger, better, make you excited. Bang bang you're dead, and you don't even know it.

The best cab is the cab that makes you sing, not just speak. It doesn't matter what names on the front or who made it. I still choose to use my ears. And that's that.

Respect,
David

Empiricists abound. Guys that that talk sense are few. Bill Fitzmaurice had a gutsful of arguing with empiricist falsehoods and left. You even want to tell us Newton had it wrong. What were you selling again?

[basswave]

Originally Posted by Balog

Ok, the point at which you claim Newtonian physics are no longer true is the point at which you officially pass into snake oil salesman territory.

Thats why so many of us make our money using (not selling) these cabinets.

Remember David allowed several bass players in the community to try the cabinets with their own basses and amps at the GTG...
How much more reviling and open can you be?

I personally offer up a demo for anybody who wants to try them in the Greater Boston area. You can come to my studio in the North Shore. PM me if your interested.

Do your ears lie?

I will have several different versions for people to check out if your interested. RS410T, RS210T and the Current fusion. Who knows what other prototypes I might have on hand as well.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by dawind99

Dinky Dawson, who did the first Steely Dan tour starting in Sturbridge! MA

Stockbridge maybe?

[will33]

Originally Posted by dawind99

Duke, Quote Ben Franklin and you have my attention. He didn't practice what he preached, but he was brilliant. Don't know Bill Fitzmaurice. The new materials do indeed change everything. And, I offered the repostulation of Newton's second law as a hypothesis but Newtonian physics are far from truth anymore. Fact.

Dinky Dawson, who did the first Steely Dan tour starting in Sturbridge! MA recieved a call during soundcheck from 14 miles away (where the Boston Symphony Orchestra was performing) asking him to turn down. Dinky was using 200 2x5" cabs that he designed and built. The drivers were from Belgium. They worked.
Ken Forsythe, EAW went from replicating horn loaded JBW 4560 cabs on steroids to the front loaded 6,7,8 series front loaded boxes that are industry standards for FOH.
As soon as you question whether something can work or be real without testing, tasting, listening, seeing, or thinking how it may be.....well, your life is done. Nothing can ever be bigger, better, make you excited. Bang bang you're dead, and you don't even know it.

The best cab is the cab that makes you sing, not just speak. It doesn't matter what names on the front or who made it. I still choose to use my ears. And that's that.

Respect,
David

Now there's how you earn respect and peddle your wares....by down-talking folks who've probably forgotten more about acoustics than most of us will ever know.

As far as I'm concerned, this outfit has joined the ranks of used car salesmen and politicians....not good company to keep.

[basswave]

Its real simple...

Revsound is sending 2 210s to Bass Gear Magazine this spring.

Tom Bowlus is doing a technical review and Allen is going to do a review as well.

I personally don't know Xmax or several of the other factors that folks where talking about. I just know what works in a real life scenario.

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Empiricists abound. Guys that that talk sense are few. Bill Fitzmaurice had a gutsful of arguing with empiricist falsehoods and left. You even want to tell us Newton had it wrong. What were you selling again?

So far from empiricist although sometimes I wish I could just enjoy something for what it is a little more often. I'm a third generation engineer. Growing up like that doesn't leave a lot of room for loose speculation or hypothesis unless you were prepared to defend it with facts until the sun came up. I did not just bounce off the turnip truck. I'm not "selling" anything. And I'm not telling you Newton had it wrong. I love physics. I'm a wire head nerd, and proud of it. Newtons laws as applied to classical mechanics are not completely relevant. That was recognized and proven by several physicists in the mid 1800s. (Hamilton being the first if memory serves.) Newtons laws applied to a "unit". Quantum physics actually, imho has a relevance in understanding how drivers react, how enclosures effect response, and why a drivers material may shift the paradigm of Small parameters in cabinet design. I'm neither an "empiricist" nor a slave to dogma, just a guy that does not accept walls or rules without testing them. Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intent. There are a lot of folks that are on this forum that I've had the pleasure of dialogue with that are approaching cab design and driver application from a whole new place. This is exciting and positive, and throwing ideas and sharing thoughts is one of the upsides of us all being together here. And, it celebrates Newtons first law (in an empirically derivative sense) whereas ideas serve as vectors changing our direction.
respect,
David

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Stockbridge maybe?

You're right, thank you..

[Rockin Mike]

Originally Posted by dawind99

Quantum physics actually, imho has a relevance in understanding how drivers react, how enclosures effect response, and why a drivers material may shift the paradigm of Small parameters in cabinet design.

No, quantum physics is about how subatomic particles interact at sizes and energies many orders of magnitude smaller than any material stuff you could kick.

imho

It's not a matter of opinion.

effect

The word you are looking for is "affect", not "effect".

I'm not an acoustical engineer but I know enough about science to know that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. When you say that you have revised the known laws of Newtonian physics, or that speaker behavior is governed by quantum phenomena, based on what you hear with your ear, that falls short.

If you have the math to back those claims, prepare to win the next Nobel prize. Somehow I think you don't.

Perhaps the field of science that explains your results is psychoacoustics rather than physics.

Sorry to be a naysayer, but I think you are embarassing yourself.

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Ha, I wasn't really interested in this thread before, but the entertainment value just went up!

That it did Wasn't bashing Newton; just stating a fact on his classical mechanics aspect, don't know Mr Fitzmaurice, and I'm not selling anything....but entertaining it is.

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by will33

Now there's how you earn respect and peddle your wares....by down-talking folks who've probably forgotten more about acoustics than most of us will ever know.

As far as I'm concerned, this outfit has joined the ranks of used car salesmen and politicians....not good company to keep.

On the contrary, I have massive respect for Dinky and Ken and the engineers and designers like them that tried something different. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough there. I respect opinion, and enjoy dialogue. There are, as i've said before, many great designers, cab builders, luthiers, and amp builders on this forum and I have made some great contacts and shared ideas. That's what it's about. And, I'm not an outfit Just David, and I haven't been trying to sell you anything. Again, I sincerely apologize for anything construed as disrespect. That wasn't in any part of my intent.

[cchorney]

Lightweight 210 you say? Interested.
Competitively priced you say? Interested.
Only available at 4 ohms? Not interested.

Had me, had me, lost me.

[basswave]

Originally Posted by cchorney

Lightweight 210 you say? Interested.
Competitively priced you say? Interested.
Only available at 4 ohms? Not interested.

Had me, had me, lost me.

This is the option at this time...However

The possibility of these drivers with different ohmage is potentially possible and is being discussed.

[will33]

Originally Posted by dawind99

On the contrary, I have massive respect for Dinky and Ken and the engineers and designers like them that tried something different. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough there. I respect opinion, and enjoy dialogue. There are, as i've said before, many great designers, cab builders, luthiers, and amp builders on this forum and I have made some great contacts and shared ideas. That's what it's about. And, I'm not an outfit Just David, and I haven't been trying to sell you anything. Again, I sincerely apologize for anything construed as disrespect. That wasn't in any part of my intent.

I was more refering to Mr. LeJeune and Mr. Fitzmaurice, but, that's OK.

You're making some pretty "out there" claims here regarding performance/output and weight. When folks who know their stuff question this, or ask about hard engineering facts, parameters, specifications, etc. and you come back with opinions and "it sounds like this", and claiming established laws in physics and science don't apply, it doesn't make you look too smart.

Though you may've not meant it, your wording and approach, and "attitude" conveyed in the written form, and the back-peddling and twisting around what was already stated could use a little spit and polish.

Just a little advice there. Not looking to flame too much. There are physical laws and limits that your speaker, nor anyone elses, can not break. Perhaps there is a bit of psycho-acoustics at play, nothing at all wrong with that either. "If it sounds good, it is good" always applies. It's the claims of how you get there that don't stand up as currently explained.

[will33]

In short, I'm saying your stuff probably does sound good, but there are some pretty wild claims being made in here that aren't getting explained technically. Could probably use a PR guy or somethin'. There's a reason engineering and marketing are 2 different departments......even when that department may only consist of a wife or friend answering phones.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by basswave

The possibility of these drivers with different ohmage

Oh no you didn't!!!!