Would you be interested in approx. 25lb 4x10 or 16lb 2x10 (sound in the vein of a Ber

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Oh no you didn't!!!!

Oh yes he did:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ohmage

[will33]

It's a highly technical term.......like cabbage.


Odd, the sites that do publish a definition for "ohmage" all define it as the electrical "resistance" of a conductor....and never mention impedance, so, even if it is a word, it's still wrongly used to describe impedance.

[Downunderwonder]

The cabs seem to be very normal reflex 2x10 and 4x10 from the outside. The single 4" port 3" deep on the 4x10 looks a bit strange to my inexperienced eye.

Sounds good, is good is all very well but do you see how you come off as selling snake oil? Someone thinking they are using quantum properties to bend Thiele Small rules is the very essence of an empiricist at work!

You have some very light, nice sounding cabs according to some testimonials. If you want to score some major points you could publish a SPL response chart and give a power handling figure for 60hz. That'll put you way ahead of the pack.

[basswave]

Originally Posted by will33

It's a highly technical term.......like cabbage.


Odd, the sites that do publish a definition for "ohmage" all define it as the electrical "resistance" of a conductor....and never mention impedance, so, even if it is a word, it's still wrongly used to describe impedance.

Hi Will..

I'm not sure if you are referring to my post.

But an 8 ohm 210 cabinet is something that that some folks are asking for so they can match it with the 8 ohm 410 (large outdoor type of shows ect,). In order for that, the existing drivers load would need to change (from my understanding).

I will say this...I don't need it at this time.
The Revsound RS410T replaced my Berg AE410. at 8 ohms and I'm not the only player that has done that. Its that efficient.

[Chef]

Note:
you guys are taking basswave to task, as if they're his cabs.
They're not.
He's an endorser/user, not the designer/builder.

[will33]

Originally Posted by basswave

Hi Will..

I'm not sure if you are referring to my post.

But an 8 ohm 210 cabinet is something that that some folks are asking for so they can match it with the 8 ohm 410 (large outdoor type of shows ect,). In order for that, the existing drivers load would need to change (from my understanding).

I will say this...I don't need it at this time.
The Revsound RS410T replaced my Berg AE410. at 8 ohms and I'm not the only player that has done that. Its that efficient.

Mostly just joking on the use of the word "ohmage". Should've put a there. If you can get from ohms to ohmage, you must be able to get from cabs to cabbage.

Impedance is still the proper term, but anyway, I can't see any benefit in having a 4 ohm 210 cab as most people would want to use 2 of them to get sufficient output for many gig situations, such as carrying a 100 person room with their rig, or covering a large or noisy stage at bigger places.

I can however see benefit in a good 4ohm 410 or 212, especially for use with certain tube amps in the same type of situations I described for the 210.

If they want 4 and 8 ohm versions of both cabs, they would need alternate impedance versions of their driver. If they just stuck to 8ohm 210's and 4ohm 410's, they could use the same driver across the board.

[cchorney]

Originally Posted by basswave

But an 8 ohm 210 cabinet is something that that some folks are asking for so they can match it with the 8 ohm 410 (large outdoor type of shows ect,).

Just an FYI, that's not why I would only want it in 8 ohms.

Most of my gigs I can get along quite happily with a good 210, raised off the ground a bit and on its side (so the drivers are vertical). For larger gigs I would want to put a second 210 on top of the first, also on its side, so I could add a little more sound pressure and volume for the crowd and also so I could better hear myself (because the topmost driver will be near my ear level). Anything bigger than those needs, I the PA for everything except stage monitoring, for which the two 210s should be sufficient on the size stages I play.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by dawind99

Duke, Quote Ben Franklin and you have my attention. He didn't practice what he preached, but he was brilliant. Don't know Bill Fitzmaurice. The new materials do indeed change everything. And, I offered the repostulation of Newton's second law as a hypothesis but Newtonian physics are far from truth anymore. Fact.

Dinky Dawson, who did the first Steely Dan tour starting in Sturbridge! MA recieved a call during soundcheck from 14 miles away (where the Boston Symphony Orchestra was performing) asking him to turn down. Dinky was using 200 2x5" cabs that he designed and built. The drivers were from Belgium. They worked.
Ken Forsythe, EAW went from replicating horn loaded JBW 4560 cabs on steroids to the front loaded 6,7,8 series front loaded boxes that are industry standards for FOH.
As soon as you question whether something can work or be real without testing, tasting, listening, seeing, or thinking how it may be.....well, your life is done. Nothing can ever be bigger, better, make you excited. Bang bang you're dead, and you don't even know it.

The best cab is the cab that makes you sing, not just speak. It doesn't matter what names on the front or who made it. I still choose to use my ears. And that's that.

Respect,
David

This is the owner designer, being taken to task.

The Great Ohmage Debate is a red herring dispute over grammar.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by basswave

The Revsound RS410T replaced my Berg AE410. at 8 ohms and I'm not the only player that has done that. Its that efficient.

That what you said when you switched to Carvin cabs.

[basswave]

Originally Posted by will33

Mostly just joking on the use of the word "ohmage". Should've put a there. If you can get from ohms to ohmage, you must be able to get from cabs to cabbage.

Impedance is still the proper term, but anyway, I can't see any benefit in having a 4 ohm 210 cab as most people would want to use 2 of them to get sufficient output for many gig situations, such as carrying a 100 person room with their rig, or covering a large or noisy stage at bigger places.

I can however see benefit in a good 4ohm 410 or 212, especially for use with certain tube amps in the same type of situations I described for the 210.

If they want 4 and 8 ohm versions of both cabs, they would need alternate impedance versions of their driver. If they just stuck to 8ohm 210's and 4ohm 410's, they could use the same driver across the board.

Cool...
A lot of folks, including myself have used a stand alone 4 ohm 210 for smaller rooms. I have used the proto type Fusion cab (the OP) cabinet on a handfull of small rooms with ease.

Danny Mo (online professor over at Berklee) is using Revsound 4 ohm 210 and just loving it. (That guy is beating it death LOL)

[will33]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

This is the owner designer, being taken to task.

The Great Ohmage Debate is a red herring dispute over grammar.

Yes.

@ basswave.....don't feel you're being taken to task for some engineering or marketing decision you didn't make. You just seem to be one of a few speaking in favor of these things, so, you're bearing the brunt.

As a user/endorser, I would assume these things do something you like and that's cool. It's also a very different thing from dawind there making technical claims that won't stand up to testing or trying to sort of "change the rules to better fit his game".

Just because something can't do what somebody claims it can do, doesn't always mean it sounds bad. It just means it can't hit whatever mark was claimed.

[basswave]

Originally Posted by Freddels

That what you said when you switched to Carvin cabs.

The Carvins are a great cabs as well...but the standard RS410T are 16lbs lighter, punchier and with a sweetier upper mids, with a smaller foot print as well.

The Carvins cabs I have are more PA column-ish. I have no issues with them what so ever.

One of the drummers I played with said it pretty good..The Revsound sounds like a merge of the Berg and the Carvin...It does, to degree, but there is something really unique about those upper mids.

The Revsound cabs are hard to beat (I'm speaking about my own needs).

[basswave]

Originally Posted by will33

Yes.

@ basswave.....don't feel you're being taken to task for some engineering or marketing decision you didn't make.

No...Not at all.
This is not my first rodeo and I have worked with other amplification based companies before.

Originally Posted by will33

You just seem to be one of a few speaking in favor of these things, so, you're bearing the brunt.

As a user/endorser, I would assume these things do something you like and that's cool. It's also a very different thing from dawind there making technical claims that won't stand up to testing or trying to sort of "change the rules to better fit his game".

Just because something can't do what somebody claims it can do, doesn't always mean it sounds bad. It just means it can't hit whatever mark was claimed.

Honestly...I mean this in the most 'Aloha way' My 'mark' is not arguing on-line about specs.

To be honest I could give a 'rat's @ss' about that stuff...Being a geek in other areas I'm interested about what you guys are speaking about to a degree, but you better get me another cup or coffee or 3 to keep my awake and keep my interest.

My 'mark' is what does it do for me as my job "the bass player" that plays several different types of gigs.
1. First and for most TONE
2. Durability and Portability

Time to play now.
Cheers

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by dawind99

And, I offered the repostulation of Newton's second law as a hypothesis but Newtonian physics are far from truth anymore. Fact.

It's a bit early to write an epitaph for Newtonian physics. Within well understood bounds, it remains a powerful and accurate theory.

Something else is probably going on here. If somebody tells you that a speaker violates the laws of physics, it could be one of:

1. Somebody doesn't understand the physics, or is using a rule of thumb in an inappropriate way.

2. Somebody is carelessly comparing physical and psychological effects, such as sound pressure and volume.

3. Somebody doesn't actually have a physical model or data.

[will33]

Originally Posted by basswave

No...Not at all.
This is not my first rodeo and I have worked with other amplification based companies before.



Honestly...I mean this in the most 'Aloha way' My 'mark' is not arguing on-line about specs.

To be honest I could give a 'rat's @ss' about that stuff...Being a geek in other areas I'm interested about what you guys are speaking about to a degree, but you better get me another cup or coffee or 3 to keep my awake and keep my interest.

My 'mark' is what does it do for me as my job "the bass player" that plays several different types of gigs.
1. First and for most TONE
2. Durability and Portability

Time to play now.
Cheers

Ha...that's exactly the tack people take when they realize their stuff can't measure up to the claims made.

That's not on you now, it was the designer who came here spewing some stuff about being able to move a greater volume of air with less displacement or some such stuff.

You like the stuff, that's cool. It just means it does what you need done. It in no way means it can stand up to what the maker claimed. Some simple measurements he could do in his back yard could put all that to rest.....don't hold your breath waiting for those.

[f.clef]

You like the stuff, that's cool. It just means it does what you need done. It in no way means it can stand up to what the maker claimed. Some simple measurements he could do in his back yard could put all that to rest.....don't hold your breath waiting for those.

Yes. I wonder what a disinterested person, such as yourself, would discover in your backyard with this cabinet.

Will check back in. Thanks!

[will33]

Originally Posted by f.clef

Yes. I wonder what a disinterested person, such as yourself, would discover in your backyard with this cabinet.

Will check back in. Thanks!

One more observation and I'm outta here.

These threads, arguements, discussions, whatever you want to call them pretty much go like this....



1. Speaker designer/business owner or whoever is pushing the latest wundercab, makes some pretty far-fetched claims about their product, using technical specifications, usually SPL, frequency response, power handling or some combination of the 3. In this case, you can throw weight and some alledgedly spaceage material in there too.


2. Some dude on the internet says wow, that looks cool, man. Do you have any measurements to back that up?, because that's the (insert hyped quality here) cab I've ever seen.


3. Designer never answers that yes or no question with a yes or a no, but rather goes into subjective opinions and/or testamonials from friends of his or people he's given free stuff to.

4. Some dude on internet says, well, that all sounds nice and I like how those people describe the sound, but still, these high performance claims are a little hard to swallow. Could you show me some measurement that confirm this?

5. Designer comes back with, nobody cares about specs, just use your ears. Are you a musician or a scientist? Just buy one and it'll sound good.


See what happens there? They want to use specs to tout their stuff, then say specs don't matter when it comes to proving their claims. They want their Kate and Edith too, all the while attempting to separate you from your money with nothing to backup the claims they've made.

They then go back and spend more time writing up bogus testamonials, creating fake facebook fan pages and paying off google to bump their search results up the list than they do going about creating product that actually could achieve their claims.


And that's not even directed specifically at Revsound here, there are tons of people that do this type of stuff everyday.

Thankfully there are places like this to call them into question and let the cream rise to the top.

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by will33

Yes.

@ basswave.....don't feel you're being taken to task for some engineering or marketing decision you didn't make. You just seem to be one of a few speaking in favor of these things, so, you're bearing the brunt.

As a user/endorser, I would assume these things do something you like and that's cool. It's also a very different thing from dawind there making technical claims that won't stand up to testing or trying to sort of "change the rules to better fit his game".

Just because something can't do what somebody claims it can do, doesn't always mean it sounds bad. It just means it can't hit whatever mark was claimed.

Working backward, it can hit it's "mark" and will. Second, I don't play games and when I do I play by the rules. Third your assumption/statement that there have been technical claims that won't stand up to testing are based on what? Try a cab. Then feel free to beat me up. I've been playing pro since I was 14 and building cabs for 35 years. I still play 3 nights a week and my bass cab design impetus came out of load ins that sucked and feeling for my bassist carrying
A rig that weighed a ton. I love bass, music and there is no bs here, just a Warhorse that knows how to design and build a light, musical, bass cabinet. Reel it in and show some kindness and respect for your musician friends on this site. We all work hard and put up with enough as musicians. This should be a cool place. It is a cool place. Call me on the phone and talk, ask questions, I'll make time for anyone that's interested.

With respect,
David Luke
603.651.9800

[dawind99]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

The cabs seem to be very normal reflex 2x10 and 4x10 from the outside. The single 4" port 3" deep on the 4x10 looks a bit strange to my inexperienced eye.

Sounds good, is good is all very well but do you see how you come off as selling snake oil? Someone thinking they are using quantum properties to bend Thiele Small rules is the very essence of an empiricist at work!

You have some very light, nice sounding cabs according to some testimonials. If you want to score some major points you could publish a SPL response chart and give a power handling figure for 60hz. That'll put you way ahead of the pack.

Down under, Thank you. I'll do that tomorrow afternoon. You are dig gin' empiricist. No snake oil, just some very good cabs built in New Hampshire by someone that cares about sound. I don't give a FF about scoring points and I am really unaware of how I come off. If I triple thought everything I said I wouldn't be me. That is the drawback of the written word; no nuance, no face. I don't represent we'll in this medium. I really do appreciate you suggesting the chart, thank you.

David

[Tactician]

Interesting, in all this dialogue, and discussion, and contrarian views - that people like Eminence and Celestion don't come on and state their views. Many years ago Eminence produced a book of suitable cabinets for their speakers - nothing outrageous, just cabs, folded horns, scoops etc. Is there anything in the current crop of manufacturers cab designs that is close to what is proposed here?