Xsonics 212CF FIRST GIG IMPRESSIONS

[Fretlessboy]

5string. I only have 1 coming in and due to price I won't be able to A/B those. I am sure Nick can shed some insight . I will however give an honest review as I see it. I am stoked about 215cf and its hopeful output and feel.

[Brad Johnson]

So now actual customer reviews are infomercials?

Seriously, can this stuff get any deeper? Are you including Seamonkey and his accusations in with the folks who have no experience or expertise with this cab?


The OP is a working bassist with actual experience. How dare he relate that here?


At what point would this not be an infomercial? When an "expert" comes in and co-signs for it?

BTW I'm not mad, this stuff has gotten way past predictable. People can't hold out to the idea that something they really have no genuine knowledge of could POSSIBLY work... because if there's even a remote chance that they're wrong, why take the usual naysayer position? How scientific is that?

[CrackBass]

I can see both sides of this. First, people like the tone they like. The OP loves his cab and more power to him. I do think that it is a valid point that most folks tend to love the thing that they just bought (honeymoon mixed with hype), however, I tend to think the OP has sufficiently tested the cabs and he seems to truly love them. I'm sure they fit his gig requirements and I trust he's truly thrilled with them.

As for Seamonkey's concerns. As you know, we have quite a few that are quite educated in the art of speaker enclosure science. The "you don't have any direct experience" argument does leave a little to be desired as the laws of physics remain the same for any speaker enclosure. Different manufacturers have come up with new designs and configurations and claim audio superiority and further claim they are doing things different than anyone before. 99% of the time this is a gimmick that is just a recycled idea from decades past. Every once in a while a manufacturer finds an innovative way to use existing tech in a slightly different way that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people. However, those designs still reside within the immutable laws of physics, and those intimately farmilliar with those laws will be able to ascertain performance perameters without direct experience. Just like a car guy could tell you that an automaker who claimed 120 MPG from a dually truck because the tank was moved from the rear to the bed, was full of it. Without direct experience. Especially if no official test measuring performance was available. Now this is quite an exageration for an example. I think the figurative "truth" is that they're both right.

[johnpbass]

Good to hear you're doing well health wise Dennis.
Also good to see your "on the gig" reviews again!
Sounds like a very cool cab.

[bb03]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

... but we're all here to champion better products that are actually better.

I'm not here for that.

I'm here for cool bass equipment, that I like the sound of. Which means (as I'm too lazy to educate myself about charts) when I can click "send money" on Paypal, and have said cool bass equipment at my door a few days later...that's my cup of tea. Add in a great return policy, and I guess that makes me even more of a moron for choosing this method of picking equipment.

Ahh...the bliss of ignorance.

And, good grief..."champion"...really?

[Fretlessboy]

Originally Posted by bb03

I'm not here for that.

I'm here for cool bass equipment, that I like the sound of. Which means (as I'm too lazy to educate myself about charts) when I can click "send money" on Paypal, and have said cool bass equipment at my door a few days later...that's my cup of tea. Add in a great return policy, and I guess that makes me even more of a moron for choosing this method of picking equipment.

Ahh...the bliss of ignorance.

And, good grief..."champion"...really?

Kind of my thought exactly. I am 51 years old with health issues... If I can get the job done the way I want it done and lose 40 pounds of cabinet in process why not? I am test driving another Xsonics cab the 215cf this weekend. 2 inches (give or take) bigger than the 212cf...under 50 pounds 40 hz.
I will decide how I love it vs the 212cf. 15 are 15s so if it works why not? I won't see the graph on that one either. Don't care because I either like it or I don't. and I have 72 hours to decide.

[Fretlessboy]

Originally Posted by johnpbass

Good to hear you're doing well health wise Dennis.
Also good to see your "on the gig" reviews again!
Sounds like a very cool cab.

John, TY, I am feeling pretty decent tho I just am getting over the stomache thing everyone has had.

[jlepre]

Question:

The External Dolly Handle option: Is this available separately? Is it attached to the cab?

[Fretlessboy]

I don't believe it is attached... I could be wrong

[Fretlessboy]

Say hello to my 215 friend

[Blues Cat]

Originally Posted by Fretlessboy

Attachment 318722Say hello to my 215 friend

Whoa. It's nice to see you designing with your ears and not computer simulation. Nothing against comp sim, I just like you're approach.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by CrackBass

I can see both sides of this. First, people like the tone they like. The OP loves his cab and more power to him. I do think that it is a valid point that most folks tend to love the thing that they just bought (honeymoon mixed with hype), however, I tend to think the OP has sufficiently tested the cabs and he seems to truly love them. I'm sure they fit his gig requirements and I trust he's truly thrilled with them.

As for Seamonkey's concerns. As you know, we have quite a few that are quite educated in the art of speaker enclosure science. The "you don't have any direct experience" argument does leave a little to be desired as the laws of physics remain the same for any speaker enclosure. Different manufacturers have come up with new designs and configurations and claim audio superiority and further claim they are doing things different than anyone before. 99% of the time this is a gimmick that is just a recycled idea from decades past. Every once in a while a manufacturer finds an innovative way to use existing tech in a slightly different way that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people. However, those designs still reside within the immutable laws of physics, and those intimately farmilliar with those laws will be able to ascertain performance perameters without direct experience. Just like a car guy could tell you that an automaker who claimed 120 MPG from a dually truck because the tank was moved from the rear to the bed, was full of it. Without direct experience. Especially if no official test measuring performance was available. Now this is quite an exageration for an example. I think the figurative "truth" is that they're both right.

Unless someone has modeled a cab of this design, they don't really know what it'll do. They know what they think it'll do based on guesses based on different designs. The problem with that should be pretty obvious. They don't really know the effects of using this particular design.

Unless of course someone would like to provide hard proof to the contrary.



I've seen people who are underwhelmed after spending a lot of money on gear too (there's even a name for it... "buyer's remorse") so I still think the blanket negative assumption about new owners is weak.

[Fretlessboy]

Well it won't be here till Friday.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Unless someone has modeled a cab of this design, they don't really know what it'll do.

I would be surprised if any consumer-level software can accurately model this cabinet, particularly the speaker facing inward configuration.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by Fretlessboy

Well it won't be here till Friday.

What are the drivers ?

[Ncognito]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

What are the drivers ?

Eminence KappaLite3015. New model! 40hz - 4k.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Vince Klortho

I would be surprised if any consumer-level software can accurately model this cabinet, particularly the speaker facing inward configuration.

I know. And despite lacking full specs or modeling some people think they know what everything will sound like beforehand.


"Here's why what you;re listening to and think works can't" is always fun here on TB. Direct experience vs. imagining taking an equally firm stance.


There are "educated" and I don't mean that in a bad way folks who likely wouldn't even bother trying to build a cab like this because they already "know" it wouldn't work. There are also educated and less so folk who understand that they can still be surprised. There are a smaller number of audio experts here on TB who know that ultimately they still have to listen before completely dismissing everything that doesn't fit with what they know. I'm glad that there are folks who'll actually experiment with outside the box ideas. I honestly don't know why they apparently bother folks who don't so much. the stuff they like will still sound the same.

[Eublet]

Dennis, it's great to hear from you and glad to see you are out there making booties jiggle. Hope you continue doing what you love, and that cabinet looks very cool. I'd love to hear one someday. If you like it then I'm sure there's something to it.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

I'm glad that there are folks who'll actually experiment with outside the box ideas.

Me too ! Very little innovation would happen without them.

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

"Here's why what you;re listening to and think works can't" is always fun here on TB.

Yes, it can be amusing but I prefer to let my ears do my listening for me.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by Vince Klortho

I would be surprised if any consumer-level software can accurately model this cabinet, particularly the speaker facing inward configuration.

Sure - WinISD can and it's free.
The drivers facing in or out is simply changing how much volume/space is in the cabinet. Anybody with any cab can flip the woofer facing out and increase the cubic inches in the cab. Take the measurements and see.

This design essentially wastes a driver. The cabinet is too small for 2 drivers. Good science in the fEARfull which has it's origins in this forum. fEARfull has measurements to prove its science.

The builder doesn't know isobaric from bandpass. At the same time he's probably had many more site visits now that there's some controversy over this design. There really isn't a controversy. It's not a design any company with acoustic engineers would ever design.

It's not up to me to prove anything. It's like making a claim to have created cold fusion, and then selling tanks with no proof it works. I don't care how many people buy into it and believe it works. If there's no proof, and no science it doesn't matter. I also don't own premium Monster cables, and don't need any experience with them either to know they offer no advantage.