Xsonics Bass Cab Company

[5StringPocket]

One thing I'm curious about is how this cab handles the B string on a 5'er at high volumes. The 3012HO is a stout driver with high sensitivity and good X-max but doesn't extend as low as a dedicated woofer. It seems to do well down to the upper 40's but from what I've seen you don't want to put high wattage below 45Hz into this driver. The SM9.2 with it's high pass and controlled lows is probably a great match but I wouldn't think the Mesa M9 with its monster lows would be an optimum fit for this cab without taking precautions to attenuate that ultra low content. Not a bad thing at all, just important to know and stay within design limits to avoid damage. If the CF212 focuses on the meat of a good bass tone it should sound good in a busy live mix where nuances are lost. I'd like to hear this with a little fat and tube warmth from a Streamliner 900 or an Orange BT500H.

[Bmorefoozler]

Originally Posted by kringle77

In the overall sense, the hathor probably disperses better but, with the strong midrange output of the cf212 in all areas that are important to bass, the cf212 does very well.
And seriously, once you or someone at a gig stand in front of any cab that low to the ground, it won't matter much. Those frequencies are gone.

The xsonics hits alot harder but, it should given the drivers. The hathor is clearer and more .......I don't know, nuanced? I produces everything well while the cf212 focuses harder on the meat of a good bass tone. I think that came through in the videos. I prefer to not use a tweet even though this one sounds good. I can't wait to get some loud time on the xsonics. I got loud with the hathor and it did well. Two 3012ho's just have more displacement than one 15pr400.

I wouldn't think dispersion would be a problem with this cab, being that in the beaming range, it is simply a single 12" cone, crossed to a tweeter. So there is a narrow(generally unimportant) slice of upper mids that would beam, while the majority of the tone is spread througout the room.

I bet this cab shares a lot of similarities with the well renowned Lil G... My ehad is really starting to get around the idea of the 2.5 way cabs these are. The 2nd woofer seems the be constructed to only enforce the lows through the low mids, and that should be very effective as that's the meat of the tone and the portion of tone that takes the most energy and excursion to produce.

[Fretlessboy]

Mine should be here mid week. Will let you know. The design looks dead on and Nick's concept of tone seams dead on as well. And a little 800 watt package is easy on a back. Mine will be driven by my SM 12.0 so I look forward to it. Nick and I spoke at length and he is humble and is trying to improve bass players lives.

[astack]

So when does the CF215 with 3015's hit the streets? Now THAT would slam. 50% more Vd, same speaker weight.

Yeah, that little cab sounds GREAT. I'll add my thanks for the vids. I'd guess with the two speakers stuffed in a smaller box (non-iso, maybe iso, too... I dunno) gives it some extra meat down low in addition to the various other things going on to help that out. Very much nails the "do more with less (volume)" thing it seems.

I'm coming around to think the nuance stuff is a bit overrated, too (speaking of the Hathor comparison). I placed my 2x12 horizontal at practice yesterday and the thicker low end just killed in the mix the way that the vertical never did. Actually the amount of high mids/highs I heard was similar with the better vertical dispersion of a horizontal 2x v. poor vertical dispersion and higher driver of vertical 2x, so kind of a best of both worlds. So yeah, I'm finding where I disagree from the TB common wisdom, and glad to see other cab makers run in different directions. Except for the fact that now I want to buy all the different things.

[KeithPas]

Originally Posted by Ncognito

Hey kringle77

Xsonics is my company. Before Schroeder, the original design of that box was from Tech SoundSystems. I endorsed that cabinet back when Fred ran the company here in the states. The CT2000 was quite cool. My design is similar but addresses I believe all of the issues that I didn't care for with that design. My cabinets are dual shelf cross ported, and I've tried to model it's overall sound to be similar to the Eden410XLT which I've used for the last 18 years and loved.

I own one of those Tec SoundSystems air head cabinets and it is a great design; moves a lot of air; punchy, articulate, loud, small footprint and not heavy.

[Ncognito]

Originally Posted by astack

So when does the CF215 with 3015's hit the streets? Now THAT would slam. 50% more Vd, same speaker weight.

Hello astack

There is an Xsonics 215CF prototype being gigged right now by a 15" lover here in Chicago. It's kind of a one off. If there is enough demand it could be available end of February.

[seamonkey]

Another effect. Think of an unpadded cabinet. The mids bounce off the inside back and sides and out through the cone, and it sounds bad. Add padding, and you control this effect.

In the case, most of the mids from the side speaker reflect back through the cone get absorbed from the inside padding.

The cabs seems too small for two 12" with standard loading. (reference designs from Eminence) With isobaric loading it could work, but standard isobaric design is to minimize the air space between the drivers. Measurements would show all. If there's some other effect going on, then I'd recommend seeing a lawyer about protecting your intellectual property. If it is IP, it could be valuable. See the lawyer about how something that looks the same may be different, or how an "improvement" can be IP.

[kringle77]

I was playing around with the cab today and had it up on a small foot stool. I really liked getting the cab closer to my ears. I guess thats a good reason to run a pair of these cabs. The whole ear level thing is the only drawback to some of these small cab designs. It's a good trade though. If you are playing in a club with a good crowd, you are going to need your sound running through the pa to be heard. Im saying just having alittle bit in pa tops just for some clarity. My guitar player and I use amps live and use the pa just enough to give out sound some air and get it out into the audience. Never use the subs. Thats for the kick drum.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by kringle77

I was playing around with the cab today and had it up on a small foot stool. I really liked getting the cab closer to my ears. I guess thats a good reason to run a pair of these cabs. The whole ear level thing is the only drawback to some of these small cab designs. It's a good trade though. If you are playing in a club with a good crowd, you are going to need your sound running through the pa to be heard. Im saying just having alittle bit in pa tops just for some clarity. My guitar player and I use amps live and use the pa just enough to give out sound some air and get it out into the audience. Never use the subs. Thats for the kick drum.

I was thinking that, if I ever got this cab, it would go right on a stand of some sort. You are right about these little amazing cabs on the floor. I've always had a problem hearing what I needed to hear from them. I started elevating my cabs years ago to get them closer to my ears. IIRC, you can raise a cab up to 24" before losing the bottom. I usually raise mine 18", even my 212 cab. Works for me.

[kringle77]

I use in-ears live and find that I lose too much thump by taking my cabs off the floor. I prefer to leave them on the floor because my rig carries 95%-100% of my sound. I let the rig do the heavy lifting and the pa tops can make sure that Im heard in a packed club. I've figured out had to get a descent sound through the pa but, I've never loved it. This is cab is so thick though, it doesn't suffer as much as some cabs when you lift it off the ground. Thats saying alot.

[Arjank]

Still see Isobaric mentioned here....
There are only two drivers, one is mounted with the magnet to the front and it's polarity reversed. This is push-pull, should reduce a bit of 2nd order harmonic distortion (works best with open baffle designs where there is equal pressure at either side of the cone).
The side chamber should not affect the lowend around the Fb of the cabinet, it will mostly affect the lower-mids.
The smaller one would make the sidechamber(and opening) the more it will affect the Fb of the driver(s), as far as I can see the sidechamber's size is to big to have any effect.

Just measure the lowend response(and/or impedance) with and without the sidepanel of the sidechamber, that will clear things up a lot.

[kringle77]

Arjank, thanks for the info. I think Nick has decided that both drivers facing out is going to be the standard setting. I did a rough measurement with my driverack and it was as I expected. The response pretty much looked like the frequency curve for the 3012ho driver but with a healthy boost from 200hz to around 80hz to 60hz (the room has an effect on it and it's winter here so, I wasn't going outside) and then it drops off. It's a very good sound. Solid and meaty. Not boomy though. I just sounds like a bass. Nick definitely hit his tone and volume goals with this cab. I'd like to try the cf210 but, the cf212 has so much more displacement and Im trying to cover the same gigs that my nv610 is used for so...

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by kringle77

The response pretty much looked like the frequency curve for the 3012ho driver but with a healthy boost from 200hz to around 80hz to 60hz .... Solid and meaty

That boost around 200hz might come from the sidechambers dimensions, like I told it will probably affect the low-mids and not add any significant volume in the low-end.
Due to our brain fooling us (filling in the missing lower octave) this kind of design might sound pretty meaty for it's size.

[Fretlessboy]

A 215 would be deadly I am sure. Especially if it carries the same footprint as the 10s and 12s. The design is intelligent and well thought out. Elevating the cabinet will help but I like the feel of a cabinet on the floor

[kringle77]

You ever see those videos where some guy gets kicked square in the chest by a horse with both hooves? Thats what the CF212 does. It's a little horse with huge hooves and an attitude about it.

Fretlessboy, I think that you are really going to dig the cab. I'll posting more videos of it soon.

[Fretlessboy]

Originally Posted by kringle77

You ever see those videos where some guy gets kicked square in the chest by a horse with both hooves? Thats what the CF212 does. It's a little horse with huge hooves and an attitude about it.

Fretlessboy, I think that you are really going to dig the cab. I'll posting more videos of it soon.

Cool. I will get some out as well. Cab due in this week

[kringle77]

Got to use the cab at a loud band practise last night. This thing can get really loud. Jgr, it won't out do an nv412 but, I expected that as, the nv412 is probably the louded production cab I've ever used. The cf212 was great at low volumes and mid volumes. It handled everything my genz 9.2 could throw at it. At higher mid and high volumes I did have to dial back the low mids at around 200hz and turn up the lows. Thats just the character of the cab though. Lots of great mids and top end with just the woofer on. Tweet sounded good too but, as you guys know by now, tweets aren't my thing. Will this cab keep up with the nv610 at high volume, of course not. Will it drive most bands without pa support, yes. Those 3012ho's are really something. I don't know if the tuning of this cab would favor 5 stringers or not. Probably depends on the players preference. 4 stringers will have no issues. I would look at it this way. With many cabs I would boost lowmids at lower volumes to get some punch but turn it down as volume increases. With this cab I'd do the opposite.

The finish on the cab seems to be very durable. I've tossed it in the back on my truck several times and have not been gentle with handling it at all and the finish is still perfect.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by kringle77

It handled everything my genz 9.2 could throw at it. At higher mid and high volumes I did have to dial back the low mids at around 200hz and turn up the lows. Thats just the character of the cab though. .

Kringle77, what signal do you normally send to the PA(if you ever play with a PA that is)? Cause if you give them the post-preamp signal the PA will produce less low-mids too.....
Maybe a good idea to switch that genz 9.2 to pre-eq (maybe you allready do that )

[Gearhead17]

Xsonics 212CF and the 210CF – I met up with Nick recently and tried out these two cabs. He let me BLAST BOTH and play whatever the heck I wanted in his basement. Nick was a great host and enjoyed hearing what a 5 string sounded like through them.

Here are my FIRST impressions of both cabs – I have not used them in a gigging situation yet and I tested both cabs with my Carvin BX1200 heads and the same settings on them. Bass was a Spector Euro 5LX. Nothing was boosted; I tried to keep the Carvin heads as neutral as possible so I could hear what the cabs could do. Please keep in mind that what I report here should not constitute as the “gospel” and that my ears hear differently than everyone else’s.

kringle77 had said the 212CF hit like a hammer – it definitely does. The first thing that came to mind was Schroeder cabs. This is very similar to a Schroeder cabinet, HOWEVER, the 212CF and 210CF both were more articulate and minor EQ changes caused an actual tone change. The midrange was not nasally or hollow sounding either. I owned a Schroeder 212R for a few days and it was awful for my uses. Midrange bump on it was nuts, little to no articulation and for some reason, I could cut through in band situation. I could not EQ that cabinet to save my life.

Using distortion (VT Bass/Xotic X-Blender) heavy with overdrive and the character knob nearly all the way right) on the 212CF and 210CF resulted in a VERY wicked distortion tone. The pick attack definitely came through and both cabs were INSANELY loud when I did that. It was like a completely different character came out at that point. I would describe it as if the cabinet had a power tube section and distortion tone I use became edgier and wilder. It was pretty darn cool. I could see either box cutting through Marshall full stacks with ease. Not just one 412, but TWO! I am serious on that one.

Standing the cabs vertical and horizontal – there was a definite tone difference. Coupling with the floor when horizontal resulted in more low end and sounded more articulate when vertical. More low end than most Schroeder cabs ever put out.

Dispersion – these cabs were crazy again! Sound was flying out at least 20 feet with lots of volume. I was amazed. All this talk about beaming with bass rigs on talkbass nowadays…..I barely heard any of that on these cabs. Maybe some of the highs were gone 20 feet out, the growly midrange content was still flying around though….

For a little fun, we ran my DNA 210 against the 210CF. Volume wise (despite the 97db sensitivity), the 210CF can get LOUD and play fine at crazy volumes. My DNA 210 did really well though, but the 210CF won here. The DNA 210 had more low end and was more polite sounding, more articulate. The 210CF is just a mean, growly, punch machine. For stage use, I still want to use my DNA cabs, but if you really want to cut through with ONE cabinet, Xsonic cabs are worth checking out.

Playing a 5 through the cab: I am not sure how much low end was actually coming out of the CF cabs with my B string. I think my DNA 210 had more low end. Currently though, I don’t use a lot low end from my cabs on stage. I typically roll off the lows below 150hz since I am always so close to the subwoofers at shows. I can already hear and feel the subs, so why blast my rig with low end if I can already hear/feel it from the PA? Have I tried the fEarful cabs? Nope. I have no idea what bass cabs can really do in the low end. In the horizontal position though, the cab had some good low end response. Lowest frequency? Don’t know.

Lastly, the 210CF and 212CF sounded pretty much the same. The high end off the 210CF (no tweeter) had a higher crossover point and sounded better to me. The 212CF had a lower crossover point which resulting in less articulation from the speaker. But, when I turned the tweeter up a little more on the 212CF, the high end was better and worked for me. There was definitely an output change between the cabs and I could definitely hear more low end on the 212CF.

That’s all I know for right now. Nick had offered to have me try out his cabs at a show in the future and I WILL take him up on that. That is truly the only way to know for sure what the cabs can do.

[kringle77]

On the rare occasion that I put any bass to the pa it is from the fx send of the fet channel in my genz to a fdeck HPF3 rolling off all the lows, into a sansamp vt with speaker sim (hi frequency spike) defeated, the treble at 11:00, character at noon. I just use the pa to get some articulation out into the club that bodies soak up. I hate bass guitar run into subs. Unless you have some seriouse filters on the mixing board.