Yet Another (2) x 112 Thread

[SpinyNorman]

I'm in the Midwest, and I was hoping to get out and play a round or two of golf this weekend, but the golf gods did not cooperate. So, instead I spent a good chunk of the weekend reading just about every thread related to the Aguilar TH 500, Genz Benz Streamliners, etc, as well as mini stacks (2x112).

Like many older players, I've grown tired of schlepping around 100+ pound rigs. I currently have a Hartke stack (HA3500/410XL/115XL), and an Ampeg rig (SVT-CL/610HLF).

Given that I primary play P-basses, and want a relatively "vintage" tone, I decided to grab a new Tone Hammer 500 on Amazon using the 15% discount link that was floating around. (Thanks for the link, guys!) I figured I had to start with something, and if the TH500 doesn't pan out, I can flip it easily.

Now, I'm ready to pick up a pair of 1x12 cabinets, but frankly, after reading all the comments and reviews, my brain hurts! I want something small and lightweight, but it doesn't have to be ultra-lightweight. Thus, after poring over hundreds of pages of TB postings this weekend, I think I've narrowed it down to the following:

High-end:

- Bergatino HT112ER or HD112
- Aguilar DB112/DB112NT or GS112
- Baer ML112

Best Bang for the buck:

- GK Neo 112-II
- Hartke HyDrive HX112

Wildcards:

- Genz Benz Focus FCS-112T (Used pair for $499)
- Traynor TC112
- Bergatino HT112/EX112 (Used pair for ~$800)
- Mesa Powerhouse


Basically, I'm a gearhead. Deep down, I know I should simply "Splurge for the Bergs" (Hey, I should trademark that catchphrase!), but part of me cringes to think about spending $600+ for a single 12" speaker when one can pick up a 8x10 cabinet for a few dollars more. Yeah, I understand the uber-engineering that goes into these super-minis. (Funny, I probably wouldn't have a problem dropping a grand for a high-end subwoofer with a single 12. 'Go figure.)

The Aguilar cabs look great, and are probably the best match for the TH500, but I'm a little put off by the depth of the cabinets (18"+). My practice area doesn't have a lot of room, so it would be a bit difficult to place the deep cabinet at least 5" from the wall.

The GK and Hartke are probably the best value in the bunch. I can probably pick up a used pair for the cost of a single Berg, Aguilar, or Baer.

Any thoughts on the wildcard list? I threw in the GB Focus because I can get a used pair fairly cheaply. I expect that I would probably be a bit disappointed in the low end compared to the Bergs. Anyone have experience with the smaller Focus cabs?

I left many cabs off the list because I didn't see a distinct sound or value advantage over the BAB's (i.e. Markbass NY 121P, Mesa Powerhouse 1x12). I also ruled out the AudioKinesis Thunderchild TC112, and the fEARful 112/6, mainly due to the cost of a pair, and the larger size.

Thanks in advance!

[CL400Peavey]

The only cab on your list that would make my list is the Baer ML-112. A pair of those and you TH would be killer. I would also check out other "Super 12's" for some perspective.

[KJung]

For your tone goals, and with that particular head, IMO:

Budget... hard to beat those GK112's, and you can take your TH500 to Guitar Center and try them out. Two new ones would cost about as much as a single of the cabs I recommend below.

If money doesn't matter much.... with your tone goals and that head, Baer ML112's or Aguilar DB112's (which I know you probably don't want due to depth and rear porting distance from wall... but they sound AMAZING with a P and the TH500.

IMO!

[dspellman]

I like the fEARless (not fEARful) F112.
Likely out of your budget.

(Shown without the grill):



If you buy a pair of them, buy with mirror image baffles:

[dspellman]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Basically, I'm a gearhead. Deep down, I know I should simply "Splurge for the Bergs" (Hey, I should trademark that catchphrase!), but part of me cringes to think about spending $600+ for a single 12" speaker when one can pick up a 8x10 cabinet for a few dollars more.

You're a CostCo Customer!

[KJung]

FYI, my recommendations were based on how the entire system/rig will perform given the bass you use, your tone goals, and the head you chose. It is all about the mix and match.

Roger's ML112 is unusual for mid driver loaded cabs, since the top end of that cab mimic's the top end of a driver breaking up a bit, which IMO is key to many 'P Bass tones'. It also has a nice dose of upper midrange that is not 'PA cabinet' sounding, which is important for a good P tone (especially if you like a more modern P sound with some grind up top), and also key for the somewhat low end voiced TH500.

The Bergantino HD112 (that you mention) is a fantastic cab, but is pretty hefty sounding down low, and pretty smooth sounding up top. That combination with a P and the TH500 would sound fine, but if you want some growl and grind, not so much.

The GK112's are a bit 'modern and sizzly', but have quite a bit of upper mid / lower treble content, and would work pretty well with both that head and the P with the tweeter turned down. I wouldn't really recommend the GK Neo112 II in general for what you are looking for, but they are such an amazing value, and the perfomance is WAY above their price-point.


IMO and IME!

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

The only cab on your list that would make my list is the Baer ML-112. A pair of those and you TH would be killer. I would also check out other "Super 12's" for some perspective.

The Baer does not appear to come on the used market that often. So, I'd have to basically pay retail price. Is there a market for used ML112's? I don't have a problem flipping gear, but I'd hate to get stuck with a hard to sell cabinet. The Berg's appear to sell themselves.

[nostatic]

I have to admit I keep going back and forth on ML112 vs HD112 for my "rock" setup with the Puma head. I had (and liked) AE210s, though they could get a bit aggressive in the upper mids, especially with my Foderas (PJ/Pope). I've got PA cabs for gigs where I want the PA cab sound (jazz hits), so logic would dictate that the Baers are the pick for the other side of things. That said, Berg wins on depth (15" vs 17"), but loses on weight (44 lbs vs 37 lbs) as weight as height (Baer a better "vertical" stacker).

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by KJung

The Bergantino HD112 (that you mention) is a fantastic cab, but is pretty hefty sounding down low, and pretty smooth sounding up top. That combination with a P and the TH500 would sound fine, but if you want some growl and grind, not so much.

I can't say I'm particularly looking for growl and grind. Smooth probably works better for me. I definitely like the option of having extended lows, as they can always be dialed back, but rarely put in if they're missing.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

The Baer does not appear to come on the used market that often. So, I'd have to basically pay retail price. Is there a market for used ML112's? I don't have a problem flipping gear, but I'd hate to get stuck with a hard to sell cabinet. The Berg's appear to sell themselves.

The Baer cabs are very small production runs, and are relatively new, so not many of them out there. Selling a Baer cab in the TB classifieds would be no problem. Selling a Baer cab on consignment in a local music store.... not so much

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by dspellman

I like the fEARless (not fEARful) F112.
Likely out of your budget.

Are the fEARful's sold as kits, or are they available ready to go? What's the going price for a pair of F112's?

[T. Alan Smith]

Berg cabs are most certainly not wildcard cabs. I've yet to not drop jaws anywhere I bring mine.

[kai_ski]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Are the [fEARless] sold as kits, or are they available ready to go? What's the going price for a pair of F112's?

not kits, must be purchased from an authorized builder.

I think it's over $1k per cab.

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by kai_ski

not kits, must be purchased from an authorized builder.

I think it's over $1k per cab.

Yea, I just found a link to jHawk Customs. They're a little rich for my blood right now.

[bobcruz]

There's a pair of Baer 112s for sale on TalkBass right now:

FS/FT 2x Baer ML112's in SF bay area, will trade for tubes

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Are the fEARful's sold as kits, or are they available ready to go? What's the going price for a pair of F112's?

I would not recommend a fEARful with the TH500. Not a good match-up IMO and IME, especially with a P.

The fEARless model, which is probably relatively close to the Baer ML112 voicing, would probably work well (haven't tried one though... just going off the reviews of them being less low end extended, more mid-midrange character, and less 'PA type' top end.

[kai_ski]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Yea, I just found a link to jHawk Customs. They're a little rich for my blood right now.

In regard to Baer, I've had my eye on this sale, wish I was a little richer right now.

edit:

Originally Posted by bobcruz

There's a pair of Baer 112s for sale on TalkBass right now:

FS/FT 2x Baer ML112's in SF bay area, will trade for tubes

jinx

[KJung]

One other thing to consider, which would be AMAZING with a P and the TH500 is a Low Down Sound (LDS) 115 cab, using either the Eminence 3015 'non LF' driver or the Faital 15. Don (the LDS designer/builder) has build a ton of these, and they do a great 'old school' P tone... grindy up top, punchy down low, plenty of bass. Very lightweight, and just MADE or a P.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Are the fEARful's sold as kits, or are they available ready to go? What's the going price for a pair of F112's?

Originally Posted by kai_ski

not kits, must be purchased from an authorized builder.

I think it's over $1k per cab.

The fEARful plans are free, you can build them yourself, order a flat pack kit, or order one from a builder. If you are going to look into that, look at a 12/6 with the Alphalite mid. The fEARless cabs are only available through authorized builders. They are not cheap, but imho they are worth it.

[Chef]

If you're near me, I have the Baer and GK stuff you can try.

[quote=SpinyNorman;13498013]I'm in the Midwest, and I was hoping to get out and play a round or two of golf this weekend, but the golf gods did not cooperate.