Yet another "suggest a head" thread

DeivoxCarnal · #1 10-25-2011, 07:41 PM

I know way less about cabs and heads than I should, but I've done a lot of reading and I find this stuff really confusing. Thanks in advance for your patience.

I currently have a David Eden 410 XLT (8 ohm 700 watts)
I used to own a SWR SM400S but ran into money problems and had to sell it.

Now that I'm looking to find a head to match my cab instead of vice versa I'm kind of stumped. I wasn't happy with my tone when I had the SWR, and I tried a lot in the EQ department but couldn't find a sound I liked.
It was easy to find a fat, sort of soft sound, but when I needed a clear grinding sound I just couldn't dial in a tone that I liked.

Could the lack-luster performance be from under-powering my cab?
I was playing with the amp bridged, so it was only running 400 watts (or was it 500...?).
What is the lowest wattage I could get away with?

I'm starting to think that I should try to trade my DE cab for a 4 ohm cabinet since I would have a wider selection of heads to choose from, and finding a good deal on a used piece would be easier.

Any suggestions for a head that would fit my cabinet efficiently?

Thanks again for your patience and help.

AdamR · #2 10-25-2011, 08:01 PM

I had the same issue with a SWR head, way to clean and hi-fi. I ended up with a Ashdown Mag 300 I got in a trade that had a much better rock tone and sold the SWR. Its still not real grindy but with a SansAmp bass driver its working for now.

You may want to look in to GK or Ampeg. I wouldnt mind trying out the higher end ashdowns either.

Road Bull · #3 10-25-2011, 09:17 PM

It depends on what sound you are looking for in a new head. A while back, I had a SWR Goliath III with a SWR 350 head that was lacking in potential. Like you, I have an 8 ohm Eden D410XLT. I picked up a Genz Benz 9.2 and I think it sounds great. It has two channels, one clean FET, the other tube pre-amp. The tube channel allows you to dial in a little grind. You can mix clean and dirty to taste. If you wanted a little more tube sound, you could always add a VT pedal or the like. And the head has plenty of power. There are some pretty cool reviews of it on youtube.

Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2 - YouTube

Good luck!

rodl2005 · #4 10-25-2011, 11:03 PM

I reckon a GB Shuttle would sound good with that cab. try for the 6.0 or 9.0 as the tube pre is cool. They can be found pretty cheap & are darn good.
How much $$$ are you looking at using? This will help ppl help you.

rpsands · #5 10-25-2011, 11:07 PM

GK MB800 is where I'd look for an amp that can do fat or growly quite well.

JimmyM · #6 10-26-2011, 01:22 AM

I'm all about the Ampeg line of heads for that type of versatility, although I greatly prefer to get overdrive from pedals, at least for live work.

DeivoxCarnal · #7 10-26-2011, 06:03 AM

Thanks for the advice guys, I'm looking into the amps you suggested.

The reason I didn't mention how much I'm looking to spend is because I have no idea what it's going to cost me to get a decent amp that will put out enough power.

Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to spend a lot.
If we're talking used, no more than 300-400, but if I can get it from GC and put it on layaway then I could afford a bit more.

bassgod0dmw · #8 10-26-2011, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeivoxCarnal

Could the lack-luster performance be from under-powering my cab?
I was playing with the amp bridged, so it was only running 400 watts (or was it 500...?).

Sine your cab is only 8 ohms, you wouldn't get the full wattage from the amp. In bridged/mono the SM400s does 500w @ 4 ohms. So you were probably giving the cab around 300w.

In either case, there is no such thing as over/under powering.

Quote:

What is the lowest wattage I could get away with?

That depends on your goals, but I usually recommend at least 300w for gigging, but 500w would be better.

Quote:

I'm starting to think that I should try to trade my DE cab for a 4 ohm cabinet since I would have a wider selection of heads to choose from, and finding a good deal on a used piece would be easier.

You'll have the same options no matter what. Having an 8 ohm cab you'll have the ability to add a 2nd 8 ohm cab for more volume. That's the way most guys go.

If you want more volume, more speakers are the way to go, not more wattage.

As for your price range...Just to throw it out there, American Musical Supply and Sweetwater both have a payment plan thing. Basically they evenly spread out the cost over 3 or 5 months. AMS doesn't charge for it, but Sweetwater does ($10). No added interest from them, they just bill it to your credit card. I've bought a few things over the years from AMS like that. It works great.

As for a recommendation, I'm loving my Genz Benz Steamliner and it sounds like that would be something that might interest you, but it is out of your price range. You can also try to find a used Mesa Walkabout head. They sound awesome and if you search hard you can find them for a decent price.

KJung · #9 10-26-2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeivoxCarnal

Thanks for the advice guys, I'm looking into the amps you suggested.

The reason I didn't mention how much I'm looking to spend is because I have no idea what it's going to cost me to get a decent amp that will put out enough power.

Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to spend a lot.
If we're talking used, no more than 300-400, but if I can get it from GC and put it on layaway then I could afford a bit more.

The SWR issue was not power but voicing. That particular SWR head had a huge low end extension (i.e., went so low that the cab couldn't even use it), and had a severe cut in the midrange.

That classic cab, of course, sounds GREAT with a bridged Eden WT800 or a WT550. If you see one of those used, they are hard to beat.

On the micro front, when Eden kind of imploded, many former Eden fans moved to the Genz Benz Shuttle amps (mentioned above). Somewhat similar 'tight, bright' tone as the Eden amps. A used Shuttle 9 would probably work very well for you, and would just be in your price range.

For something new that would sound quite nice, the GK MB500 would be at the top of your price range (if you wait for one of those '$100 off) Musician's Friend sales, you could just about get there. It has a bit of that super wide tone of the SWR (deep and sizzle), but MUCH better midrange response, and would be reasonably loud through that large, efficient 8ohm cab.

DeivoxCarnal · #10 10-26-2011, 07:38 PM

bassgod0dmw, thanks for the tips on AMS and Sweetwater! I would love to keep my cash out of GC's pockets. Plus, 5 months brings up my budget a bit!

Also, what you said about only utilizing like 300 watts makes a lot of sense since it didn't get much louder than the 300w ampeg combo that came before it.
I guess the last thing I wanted to hear was that I'm gonna have to lug around another cabinet.

I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for a 2x10 8 ohm cabinet too.

I'm shooting for 500 minimum then, since 300 watts has not cut it for me in the past with two guitarists.
You said that:

Quote:

In either case, there is no such thing as over/under powering.

I've read people on TB saying that, but I still don't understand the idea of not being able to overpower my cab. So if my DE cab is rated for 700 watts, and I run 1000 watts into am I not more likely to blow a speaker on a peak?

Apparently I'm completely ignorant as to how watts apply to volume.

DR JUNG - Thanks for the advice! I'm looking into Genz Benz, but unfortunately there's not a lot of GB heads in my area right now.

This site is great, the more I learn the more I learn that there is to learn.

TB does however fuel terrible bouts of GAS that force me to eat ramen noodles more often than I would like.

JimmyM · #11 10-26-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeivoxCarnal

I've read people on TB saying that, but I still don't understand the idea of not being able to overpower my cab. So if my DE cab is rated for 700 watts, and I run 1000 watts into am I not more likely to blow a speaker on a peak?

Yes you are. Bassgod misspoke a little...there is no such thing as underpowering a cab, but there is such a thing as overpowering a cab. Now you can use a head that's 1000w into a cab rated for 700w, but you have to watch your volume and be careful not to turn it up too high because it can blow your cab. But if you use common sense and you turn down when you think your cab might blow up at the volume you're at (hint: it probably will), then you don't have to worry about overpowering.

bassgod0dmw · #12 10-27-2011, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeivoxCarnal

I'm shooting for 500 minimum then, since 300 watts has not cut it for me in the past with two guitarists.

Just keep in mind that the more speaker area you have, the louder you're going to be. If you pushed those 300w into an 8X10 you'd probably be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Yes you are. Bassgod misspoke a little...there is no such thing as underpowering a cab, but there is such a thing as overpowering a cab. Now you can use a head that's 1000w into a cab rated for 700w, but you have to watch your volume and be careful not to turn it up too high because it can blow your cab. But if you use common sense and you turn down when you think your cab might blow up at the volume you're at (hint: it probably will), then you don't have to worry about overpowering.

Yep, I did. Sorry about that. Thanks Jimmy...

I've been running 1000w amps into my Aggie GS112's for years. I've never had an issue.