Your favourite 112 - Help me choose!

[lo-freq]

Originally Posted by lo-freq

AudioKinesis Thunderchild 112 or upcoming Bergantino HD112 (because Jim B knows how to do it right and this will be his 4th iteration of the 1x12 format).

Haven't heard the G-K Neo 112 III, but have heard good things about them.

edit: make that 5th iteration (I forgot the HT112S).

Also, yeah, the Glockenklang Space Deluxe is a great cab as well as is the Genz Benz Neox112T and the Baer ML112.

[Rockabillymic]

To the gentleman who wrote in about which 112 cab to buy and mentioned Bergantino this is my response. I bought a First Generation Bergantino NV (stands for "New Vintage") 215. I bought it in the year 2000. I still own it. It still sounds better than any comparable cabinet. I too, am looking to buy a 112 cab. I have never owned any 112 cab before. My basses are: Hofner '61 Cavern (German), Ric 4004 Cheyenne (Cii), and a Warrior Dran 4. The Warrior and Ric have Thomastik-Infeld JF-344 flatwounds-my favorite bass string. I have recently bought an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 (lb) head w/carry bag. I've been talking to a dealer about either an Aguilar SL112 or an Aguilar DB 210. After revisiting a couple of YouTube demos involving the TH 500 head and the Bergantino HD 112, I get the same conclusion: Bergantino Rules. Anyone who truly loves TONE and does not have a Berg, get one!

[blindrabbit]

I think the old Traynor TC112s are tragically underrated. Mine sound great, I get nothing but compliments on the tone, they seem to handle a low B as well as I need them to, and they weigh 25lbs. Unfortunately they've been discontinued in favour of a heavier redesign, but lucky for me this means I was able to pick up a second for about half what the old retail was. Yes, I have no doubt in my mind that there are cabinets out there that might sound a *little* bit better, but they are triple the cost. To me, with the Traynors, you are sacrificing little if anything in terms of sound, and you pay a fraction of the price for a boutique cab. That's a win in my books.

[Spfairchild]

All,
I'm sorry for the derailment, but this is related to the subject of conversation, and I've gleaned some great info from reading through this thread and similar ones.

I currently play through a 4 ohm SWR GoLight 410 with a Genz Benz ShuttleMAX 9.2. I play with a very loud salsa band, among others, and rarely have PA support. I have trouble being bassy enough while being loud enough - the 410 compresses the lows too much at high volumes. Especially after we start a set after a DJ has been playing through subs during the set breaks, my sound sounds wimpy and middy in comparison.

I thought I was looking for a single cab solution and was looking into fEARfuls. I still kind of am, but now I'm more thinking that going modular would be better, and I'm thinking about 112s (2 of em), maybe especially the "super 12s" available now. What I want to know is that if any of you have opinions on whether two 112s can be as loud or louder than my current cab with my same amp, while retaining more bottom end. What do you think? Can I expect a pair of any of these 112s to do this? I'm relatively sure that 2 fEARful 12/6s can get this done, but what do you think about the Baer 112? What about the GK Neo-II that's getting a lot of love here? I'm curious to hear what you guys think.

Thank you!

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

All,
I'm sorry for the derailment, but this is related to the subject of conversation, and I've gleaned some great info from reading through this thread and similar ones.

I currently play through a 4 ohm SWR GoLight 410 with a Genz Benz ShuttleMAX 9.2. I play with a very loud salsa band, among others, and rarely have PA support. I have trouble being bassy enough while being loud enough - the 410 compresses the lows too much at high volumes. Especially after we start a set after a DJ has been playing through subs during the set breaks, my sound sounds wimpy and middy in comparison.

I thought I was looking for a single cab solution and was looking into fEARfuls. I still kind of am, but now I'm more thinking that going modular would be better, and I'm thinking about 112s (2 of em), maybe especially the "super 12s" available now. What I want to know is that if any of you have opinions on whether two 112s can be as loud or louder than my current cab with my same amp, while retaining more bottom end. What do you think? Can I expect a pair of any of these 112s to do this? I'm relatively sure that 2 fEARful 12/6s can get this done, but what do you think about the Baer 112? What about the GK Neo-II that's getting a lot of love here? I'm curious to hear what you guys think.

Thank you!

The right combo of two 112 cabs would certainly give your 410 a run for it's money and in some cases, outdo it, IMO.

It's tricky with the boutique stuff...can't just run to your local store and try everything

[Spfairchild]

No kidding! That's why I'm asking the collective for help. I did get a chance to play Skip from Circle K Strings' fEARful 15/6/1 today, and loudly, which was a good experience. Those are capable of a lot, but I got my amp to clip on low B notes before the cab complained, being that it's an 8 ohm cab so I don't get the full power from the head. Showed me that one cab at 8 ohms is probably not my best bet, more cones may be better, with a 4 ohm total load together. 8 ohms for 1 cab would be fine for smaller gigs.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

No kidding! That's why I'm asking the collective for help. I did get a chance to play Skip from Circle K Strings' fEARful 15/6/1 today, and loudly, which was a good experience. Those are capable of a lot, but I got my amp to clip on low B notes before the cab complained, being that it's an 8 ohm cab so I don't get the full power from the head. Showed me that one cab at 8 ohms is probably not my best bet, more cones may be better, with a 4 ohm total load together. 8 ohms for 1 cab would be fine for smaller gigs.

Tell Skip to ship my strings already! I've waited...like almost a full day

I also use a ShuttleMax 9.2 for most of my gigs...nice little amps for sure.

I gig a little FEARLESS F112 a lot, and get pretty good mileage out of it, but again, that's an 8 ohm cab. For the bigger shows I throw it on top of an F115...for me, it's as good as it gets, YMMV.

To back up a bit...do you like your current 410 and just want a smaller, modular thing? How did you like the 15/6? That kinda info would most likely help in your quest

[Mousekillaz]

any one tried the 112 SWR Golight?

[Spfairchild]

Duke, he did have several sets laying out on the table...

Mousekillaz, I have not tried any of the other GoLight cabs - just the ported 4 ohm 410.

I do, in general, enjoy the sound from the SWR at lower to mid volumes. It has a harsh high end that I've grown to become more aware of and not to like (Foster tweeter), but in general, I do like a cab that's capable of a hi-fi sound. In my work outside the salsa band, I like a very modern, aggressive tone. I use stainless rounds, like effects, play with many different right hand techniques, enjoy piano-string-tone... you get the picture, I'm hoping. I'm not really into a baked-in vintage vibe, unless that can be overcome with some not too intricate EQing. In fact, I never had a problem with my SWR until I played a couple gigs (a rock band included) in which I felt like all of a sudden the bottom end that seemed so big in the studio disappeared on stage, and the recordings of those gigs seem to support that. Even with coupling the cab to the floor. It's worst with the 11 piece salsa group, in which I generally have to carry the room with my own rig. I did like the 15/6/1 I played through, although it definitely had a different character than the 410 I'm used to. I played my own bass and amp through it, so only the cab was different in the signal chain (well, and the environment). I think if I spent a little time with my amp's EQ I could get closer to the sound I was used to. But the low frequency response was definitely impressive, and overall range was great. Certainly less "warm" right off the bat, but I guess that's due to the flat nature of these cabs. After using my own head, I tried Skip's focusrite and Peavey preamp/PA combo which was set quite flat in terms of EQ, but which also pumped a full 1000w into the 8 ohm load. Definitely impressive. But without touching up my own amp's EQ settings, I preferred my own cab's sound at low to medium volumes, with a bit of a pronounced lower mid bump, which I have to confess I do like.

So I'm wondering whether the increased XMAX from a kappalite equipped cab, or maybe just another really good 1x12 cab, can foot this bill when paired up with another like cab. Or maybe I want to look into a 1x12 and a 1x15, or a 1x12 and a 1x12 sub? I can tell you, what I'd LOVE to hear is "oh yeah, 2 of XXXX 112s will totally blow that lousy 410 out of the water in terms of low end, high volume output." Followed by, "and those XXXX cabs are totally available and sell pretty cheap"

Based on the info so far, what do you think?

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

Duke, he did have several sets laying out on the table...

Mousekillaz, I have not tried any of the other GoLight cabs - just the ported 4 ohm 410.

I do, in general, enjoy the sound from the SWR at lower to mid volumes. It has a harsh high end that I've grown to become more aware of and not to like (Foster tweeter), but in general, I do like a cab that's capable of a hi-fi sound. In my work outside the salsa band, I like a very modern, aggressive tone. I use stainless rounds, like effects, play with many different right hand techniques, enjoy piano-string-tone... you get the picture, I'm hoping. I'm not really into a baked-in vintage vibe, unless that can be overcome with some not too intricate EQing. In fact, I never had a problem with my SWR until I played a couple gigs (a rock band included) in which I felt like all of a sudden the bottom end that seemed so big in the studio disappeared on stage, and the recordings of those gigs seem to support that. Even with coupling the cab to the floor. It's worst with the 11 piece salsa group, in which I generally have to carry the room with my own rig. I did like the 15/6/1 I played through, although it definitely had a different character than the 410 I'm used to. I played my own bass and amp through it, so only the cab was different in the signal chain (well, and the environment). I think if I spent a little time with my amp's EQ I could get closer to the sound I was used to. But the low frequency response was definitely impressive, and overall range was great. Certainly less "warm" right off the bat, but I guess that's due to the flat nature of these cabs. After using my own head, I tried Skip's focusrite and Peavey preamp/PA combo which was set quite flat in terms of EQ, but which also pumped a full 1000w into the 8 ohm load. Definitely impressive. But without touching up my own amp's EQ settings, I preferred my own cab's sound at low to medium volumes, with a bit of a pronounced lower mid bump, which I have to confess I do like.

So I'm wondering whether the increased XMAX from a kappalite equipped cab, or maybe just another really good 1x12 cab, can foot this bill when paired up with another like cab. Or maybe I want to look into a 1x12 and a 1x15, or a 1x12 and a 1x12 sub? I can tell you, what I'd LOVE to hear is "oh yeah, 2 of XXXX 112s will totally blow that lousy 410 out of the water in terms of low end, high volume output." Followed by, "and those XXXX cabs are totally available and sell pretty cheap"

Based on the info so far, what do you think?

For me, the best 410's sound better in smallish combos at reasonable volume, but I've never found one that can cut through a dense mix, but that's me

It sounds like you're on the right track here. A good 2-3 way modern cab is more likely to cut thru in a pleasing way and carry the room the way you're hearing it on stage...dispersion, etc. Great tone is subjective, for sure

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

No kidding! That's why I'm asking the collective for help. I did get a chance to play Skip from Circle K Strings' fEARful 15/6/1 today, and loudly, which was a good experience. Those are capable of a lot, but I got my amp to clip on low B notes before the cab complained, being that it's an 8 ohm cab so I don't get the full power from the head. Showed me that one cab at 8 ohms is probably not my best bet, more cones may be better, with a 4 ohm total load together. 8 ohms for 1 cab would be fine for smaller gigs.

I have a pair of fEARful 12/6/1's, and they will spank your 410 with the Genz.

[wcriley]

The trick to getting a good mix of "traditional/warm" and "modern" sounds out of a Shuttlemax/fEARful combination is to set the Low Mid control about 3 or 4 clicks up from minimum, then boost it a few clicks. Then adjust the upper mids and highs to taste.

To get even close to the low end cpapbility of a fEARful, you need to max out the L.F. Boost knob on a Shuttlemax.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by wcriley

The trick to getting a good mix of "traditional/warm" and "modern" sounds out of a Shuttlemax/fEARful combination is to set the Low Mid control about 3 or 4 clicks up from minimum, then boost it a few clicks. Then adjust the upper mids and highs to taste.

To get even close to the low end cpapbility of a fEARful, you need to max out the L.F. Boost knob on a Shuttlemax.

+1

With the Portaflex (and depending on the bass I am using) I am setting the mid selector either all the way down or all the way up. Boost the low mids, or cut the high mids depending on the bass.

[Spfairchild]

Thanks all, I appreciate the input. Do any of you have personal experience with the Baer ML112? I watched the video review that Ken did on them, but I can't tell if they'd work for my purposes. I got to talk to Roger quite a bit at NAMM a few weeks ago and play through the 212 a bit (at the time I was still only thinking one cab solution), but I couldn't crank it so I couldn't test what I needed to the most - low end at high volume. I know about the differences in the version of Kappalite he uses vs the LF ones used in fEARful designs, but I'm curious as to their level of output, and how the lows are when the cab is working hard. I'm also not sure whether or not the lack of a tweeter would work for me, but I now that the 6 in those cabs goes fairly high, and it may be high enough. I can also dig the reasoning behind having distortion not go through a horn but rather being reproduced by paper cone the whole way. Although, I'd prefer to just be able to turn a tweeter off in that case to see which I liked more...

It sounds like, based on my own research and what I'm hearing here, some good options for me may be 2 of the: Baer ML112(?), Accugroove Tri 112, fEARful 12/6/1, or Audiokinises TC112 cabs. What others, or would you argue that any of these would be suitable for me? How about those inexpensive GK neo 12s that I've read some big things about? Bear in mind (Baer in mind? Ha.), 6 string bass, tone that can be aggressive/modern, active electronics, loud volumes at times. And thanks again for the help and responses.

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

It sounds like, based on my own research and what I'm hearing here, some good options for me may be 2 of the: Baer ML112(?), Accugroove Tri 112, fEARful 12/6/1, or Audiokinises TC112 cabs. What others, or would you argue that any of these would be suitable for me? How about those inexpensive GK neo 12s that I've read some big things about? Bear in mind (Baer in mind? Ha.), 6 string bass, tone that can be aggressive/modern, active electronics, loud volumes at times. And thanks again for the help and responses.

The beauty of the GK Neo 112's is that you can pick up a pair of used ones for less than the cost of a single Baer ML112. From your description, the GK might do the trick. If they don't work out, flipping them is no problem, as they sell in minutes here on TB.

[CL400Peavey]

None of the cabs you listed are a poor choice. For the big booty you are looking for, the 30xxLF is the bee's knees.

[Spfairchild]

CL400, I'm inclined to think this way, too.
But Spiny, do you have any personal experience with those GK cabs? If so, do they put out pretty good volume? They're only rated at 300w, so I'm just curious to see if you or anyone else has paired them up and played a loud rock gig with that configuration. I recognize that they're relatively cheap and easy to try out, but I'd still rather not go through the trouble if they can be ruled out. But if they really belong in my previous list, I definitely want to know! I know they obviously won't sound as big as a fEARful down low, but that could be alright, depending on how they do with non-sub like lows at high volume.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

Thanks all, I appreciate the input. Do any of you have personal experience with the Baer ML112? I watched the video review that Ken did on them, but I can't tell if they'd work for my purposes. I got to talk to Roger quite a bit at NAMM a few weeks ago and play through the 212 a bit (at the time I was still only thinking one cab solution), but I couldn't crank it so I couldn't test what I needed to the most - low end at high volume. I know about the differences in the version of Kappalite he uses vs the LF ones used in fEARful designs, but I'm curious as to their level of output, and how the lows are when the cab is working hard. I'm also not sure whether or not the lack of a tweeter would work for me, but I now that the 6 in those cabs goes fairly high, and it may be high enough. I can also dig the reasoning behind having distortion not go through a horn but rather being reproduced by paper cone the whole way. Although, I'd prefer to just be able to turn a tweeter off in that case to see which I liked more...

It sounds like, based on my own research and what I'm hearing here, some good options for me may be 2 of the: Baer ML112(?), Accugroove Tri 112, fEARful 12/6/1, or Audiokinises TC112 cabs. What others, or would you argue that any of these would be suitable for me? How about those inexpensive GK neo 12s that I've read some big things about? Bear in mind (Baer in mind? Ha.), 6 string bass, tone that can be aggressive/modern, active electronics, loud volumes at times. And thanks again for the help and responses.

You certainly have some great options on your list, but to answer your question about the Baers, yes, you can slam them hard at gigging volumes and get lots of full, yet tight, low end.

[Spfairchild]

Yes! Definitive word from the Bass Gear man himself! Excellent. I read your review of the Baer stuff recently and read that you didn't miss a tweeter after playing through it a while. Do you think these cabs can really be used full range effectively though? Would you still recommend for a slapper who likes steel strings/modern tone? I believe they top out around 9khz, and that's at - 10db, but I wonder how the perceived high end can be, perhaps with more amp high end boost than normal.

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

CL400, I'm inclined to think this way, too.
But Spiny, do you have any personal experience with those GK cabs? If so, do they put out pretty good volume? They're only rated at 300w, so I'm just curious to see if you or anyone else has paired them up and played a loud rock gig with that configuration. I recognize that they're relatively cheap and easy to try out, but I'd still rather not go through the trouble if they can be ruled out. But if they really belong in my previous list, I definitely want to know! I know they obviously won't sound as big as a fEARful down low, but that could be alright, depending on how they do with non-sub like lows at high volume.

I just picked one up a few weeks ago, so I don't have experience at full volume. I've been using mine at home only.

You may want to search the forums, as there are a ton of folks using GK Neo's. I don't think I've ever ready any complaints about volume when a pair is used.