"Your stack is too big" ... signed, the band

Bobby B · #1 03-18-2010, 10:11 AM

I play in a heavy rock/punk band. It's a revisit of what we were doing in the late 80's. Since then one guitar player has been spending time in a surf rock instrumental band doing corporate gigs and stuff. The other plays in a country band, after years of punk rock. The country bass player and the surf rock guy have smaller cabs with 2 or 4 10's. I use a GK 800RB with a 410RBH and a 115RBH. The guitar players use Fender combo amps.

I tote my gear, load and unload it, etc. Never ask for help. Since we have 2 guitar players, and both of them are short, when we play on smaller stages, one of them sets up in front of me. I get a lot of low end and rattle the stage pretty good. At rehearsal one of the guitar players (the one on my side) is forever cranking his amp, and sometimes I tweak mine to compensate, but seriously... I have rehearsal recordings and the bass is not the loudest thing in the room. Sometimes, it's hard to hear even.

They've decided that the problem is that my bass stack is "
"too big". As far as space goes, speakers stacked on top of each other take up no more room than one on the ground. We haven't discussed this "too big" thing at any length, I'm a bit bewildered by it to tell the truth. Not sure where they are coming from with this... and wondering if "too big" has any validity to it.

The reason I use both cabs is because the 10's and 15 get the tone I like, where using one or the other doesn't do it. Onstage, I do push the volume a little so the soundman will have to bump us up a bit as I feel like being a little louder than the other bands on a bill (without being so loud people start walking out) draws more attention to the band. I've been to tons of arena shows where the opener was turned way down or only given part of the PA so they never threatened to blow the headliner off the stage.

I'm approaching this whole thing with an open mind, but my sense is telling me... guitards need to stop worrying about the bass and take care of the guitar.

**jbybj** · #2 03-18-2010, 10:16 AM

They just suffer from phallic envy.

nealw · #3 03-18-2010, 10:20 AM

IME, if you're the opener and the bass is too loud coming off the stage, the soundman isn't going to turn the rest of the band up to compensate. At best, he'll ask you to turn down once and then say "screw it" and let you continue to be too loud.

billhilly66 · #4 03-18-2010, 10:22 AM

Ask them what the deal is. Lots of rock bands around town here have big ol' stacks for bass. Not so much with other styles of music.

btw - What country band does your guitar player work with?

ehque · #5 03-18-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby B

Onstage, I do push the volume a little so the soundman will have to bump us up a bit as I feel like being a little louder than the other bands on a bill (without being so loud people start walking out) draws more attention to the band.

I think there's your problem right there. What may sound "a little" loud to you on stage might be too loud for your guitarists and is almost certainly way too loud for your audience.

Count Bassie · #6 03-18-2010, 10:27 AM

Sounds like your bandmates have lost a little something to years, there. Do I hear a couple of "adults" griping about "excess"? I'm sorry, what?? What was this in the first place?

Rick Auricchio · #7 03-18-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby B

I have rehearsal recordings and the bass is not the loudest thing in the room.

Because the recording equipment and/or mic is weak in picking up bass. You could still be too loud.

Quote:

...I feel like being a little louder than the other bands on a bill (without being so loud people start walking out) draws more attention to the band.

Being louder does not mean being better.

**nostatic** · #8 03-18-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Because the recording equipment and/or mic is weak in picking up bass. You could still be too loud.

Being louder does not mean being better.

^^^ +100000

This is kind of like a guy who keeps having women break up with him, and he wonders, "what is wrong with all these girls?"

Pilgrim · #9 03-18-2010, 10:32 AM

The answer is obvious: you don't know what the actual problem is - yet.

You need to sit down with than and ask "what's the problem?"

If it's just big speakers, you can let'em know that as long as you're the one toting them around, you don't plan to change.

If the problem is that you're too loud or they perceive some sound problem with your current cabs, you need to know it and the band as a group needs to agree on how to correct the problem.

One thing stands out in your posts: somehow YOU have decided that YOU are in control of the band's overall volume. When you say that you push the level up because YOU prefer to be louder than other bands, you are making a unilateral decision that the others may not agree with. I strongly suspect they're pissed that you keep pushing up the volume - and I agree with them. No one person is entitled to do that - so be ready for them to tell you that it has to stop. When they tell you that, your answer should be "OK."

JimmyM · #10 03-18-2010, 10:33 AM

yeah, i agree with the others. you're too loud for your band. volume has zip to do with whether a band goes over or not. i've seen opening acts blow the headliners off the stage with half the volume.

Count Bassie · #11 03-18-2010, 10:48 AM

Yeah dude, these guys are right. Bass cabs are typically big, and you're getting the "full blow" from your amp with all that speaker area. In a small space I'd generally use about half that stack- it's easier to manage, and won't make people feel like you're trying to dominate the room.

Bass is tricky, esp in a small room. At our rehearsals I use a single Bag End 15, and the volume is hearable and sits in the mix- doesn't push the rest of the band around. I do find, however, that when I move away from the band and stand in a smaller space (about 12 or 15 feet away), the lows have become evident and it's pretty danged powerful.

Take another look at what you've got there man, save your band. Or your gig.

Stinsok · #12 03-18-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbybj

They just suffer from phallic envy.

This!!! Screw them...

billfitzmaurice · #13 03-18-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby B

The country bass player and the surf rock guy have smaller cabs with 2 or 4 10's. I use a GK 800RB with a 410RBH and a 115RBH. The guitar players use Fender combo amps.

The simple physics of how sound works means that for you to have equal output capability with a guitar player you must have two to four times the speakers that he does. If they don't like it tell them to take their complaints to God, it's His laws of physics that's causing their problem, not your gear. And thank their lucky stars that your rig isn't made to compete with a guitar'd stack.

Count Bassie · #14 03-18-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinsok

This!!! Screw them...

LOL!

Nonetheless... being dismissed for something like this, or even getting your ears full of too much static, is a drag. Truth is though, that if your bandmates are distracted, it stands to reason they're not giving their attention to the music- that is also a drag, because you can alleviate that.

Sometimes you have to take care of other people. It can make things work.

Count Bassie · #15 03-18-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The simple physics of how sound works means that for you to have equal output capability with a guitar player you must have two to four times the speakers that he does. If they don't like it tell them to take their complaints to God, it's His laws of physics that's causing their problem, not your gear. And thank their lucky stars that your rig isn't made to compete with a guitar'd stack.

But maybe it's not necessary to have 'equal output'. I'm not a technical guy, but if you can hear the bass and the mix is agreeable, then however you get there is beside the point. My itty-bitty BE 15, with a Trace Elliot 250 sitting on it does just fine at rehearsal.

At a gig, I bring a bigger rig.

NicJimBass · #16 03-18-2010, 11:09 AM

I used to be all about being uber-loud as often as possible... back when I was in an original band, and I was not making any money. Nowadays, I have an ultralight head and (1) 212 cab and love it, and I make a decent wage playing... coincidence? Maybe, but stage voume needs to be controlled as much as possible, IMO, otherwise, no one is happy (includin the audience) because it becomes a big sonic mess.

NicJimBass · #17 03-18-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Bassie

At a gig, I bring a bigger rig.

A little left of center, but my band played Nationwide Arena earlier this year, and I got razzed for bringing my 2nd cab with me....4-12's altogether, and I didn't really push it, but come on, we're PLAYING AN ARENA... sheesh.

Sane · #18 03-18-2010, 11:15 AM

Size of your rig... doesnt have to equate to volume. I use a big 4x10 and a 2x12 with a 1000+ watt amp. Everyone loves my stage volume, and get props on it all the time from our sound guy.

Volume knobs work the same regardless of size of rig.

KingCrimson · #19 03-18-2010, 11:18 AM

Stop whining, man it up and use a half stack, simple. Audience could care less about "your tone" and so could the guitarists. Get a decent tone with a half stack and stop being so ****ing loud.

Audience does not want to hear 1 3 5, 1 3 5 continuously from the bass when the guitarist is soloing.

JimmyM · #20 03-18-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicJimBass

A little left of center, but my band played Nationwide Arena earlier this year, and I got razzed for bringing my 2nd cab with me....4-12's altogether, and I didn't really push it, but come on, we're PLAYING AN ARENA... sheesh.

i've done arenas with a b-15.