35" vs 34" scale

[Bass-Ment]

What is the benefit of a 35" scale neck over a 34" scale neck. These 35s I have are wrecking my fretting hand, making my knuckle joints hurt.

I love the sound but their killing me. I could play my Warwicks for hours and be OK. I just could get good high end clarity or volume out of them. I put so much money out here on the 35s that I'm depressed. Don't know what to do.

[RocketMusic]

In general terms, a 35" is going to have a tighter B string. That usually results in a more clear, precise low end tone on the B string. But I won't go so far as to say every 35" B string will beat every 34" B string. Scale length is just part of the overall equation.

Are your 35" basses setup properly? Is the action where you want it? Can it go lower? What guage strings are you using? These are some things other than scale length that can effect the perceived string tension.

For me personally, I switched from playing a 34" Warwick Thumb NT 5 to a 35" Roscoe Century Signature V. I initially struggled with the added string tension. For me, it was more a problem in my plucking hand. I'd get tired mid-set.

I'd been playing 45-130 strings on the Thumb, and that's what I tried initially on the Roscoe. I quickly ended up dropping down to a lighter 40-125 set, and that helped quite a bit. But after just 3-4 weeks, I was ready to go back up to the 45-130 set (for tonal reasons). I haven't looked back since.

[T. B. Player]

I just LOVE this question. Yes, a 35" will give you a tighter B string - with a wider variety of strings.

However, string tensility is based on a couple of factors - the length of the scale (a matter of physics - the longer you stretch the string, the tighter it gets).

The other factor that most people overlook is the tensile factor of the string itself. You can still get a tight B on a 34 scale, but you have a smaller range of strings to work with.

I'm moving to all 34 scales precisely because of that reason. Lots of the songs I do have a five fret finger stretch that is comfortable on a 34 but killer on a 35.

I use S.I.T. RockBrights on my 34" scale Adler, and the bass sounds just absolutely great - with a nice tight low B and a crisp high C (it's a sixer). Check 'em out at http://www.sitstrings.com/. I'll be putting a set on my 34" scale Roscoe (affectionate known here as Darth...what a great bass) this summer.

Z

[Gard]

Originally Posted by Bass-Ment

What is the benefit of a 35" scale neck over a 34" scale neck. These 35s I have are wrecking my fretting hand, making my knuckle joints hurt.

I love the sound but their killing me. I could play my Warwicks for hours and be OK. I just could get good high end clarity or volume out of them. I put so much money out here on the 35s that I'm depressed. Don't know what to do.

Tough question to answer.

Advantage, as Greg mentioned, is tighter B string - if all else is equal, i.e. the ONLY difference in woods, electronics, and construction is the 34" versus 35".

Disadvantage, as a lot of people see it, longer string.

HOWEVER - the difference between the nut and first fret on a 34" versus a 35" scale length would require a micrometer to measure!

Really.

The biggest ergonomic issue is not the overall length of the string, it's how the whole bass sits on you.

If the bass has a tendency to hang more "left" (i.e. LG body) you will feel like you're reaching out a bit with your left hand. If the bass has a tendency to hang more "right" (i.e. Century body), the headstock will be a bit closer to your body, and you won't notice the reach nearly as much.

It all adds up, some people really feel it, others (like myself) never notice much of anything at all.

My question to you would be what bass do you have? If you're feeling this issue on an LG or an SKB, you probably won't notice it on a Century - or at least not as much. If you have a Century, well, then you probably are one of those that just doesn't mesh well with the 35", and sadly the only recourse is a 34" scale length bass.

Wish I had an easy answer...

[Darkstrike]

Check his sig, it's an LG.


Maybe try hanging the strap a little lower, and have a little more angle on the neck, that'd pull the heastock in closer to you, and shorten the reach. I've done that with good results in the past, with a Traben thats very long altogether...

[VroomVroom]

Gard said it much better than I could. IME/IMO, from a playability perspective, I often can't distinguish a difference between a 34" and a 35" bass. Over the entire range of the neck, that 1" is incredibly miniscule. However, and no offense intended to anyone, but there is one thing that a 35" bass will amplify/exaggerate: poor fretting hand technique. The difficulties and pain that I've witnessed in fellow players over the years really speaks to this, especially with players who aren't naturally gifted with large hands/long fingers. In a nutshell, you've got to play "correctly." What does this mean?

- Park your thumb so the 'print' area is in the middle of the neck. Position the thumb so it's vertical (perpendicular to the neck), and apply just enough pressure to guide your hand laterally.

- Keep your fingers parallel to the frets. The first step will be a great guide, but this may require more concentration than you think, especially at first. Give yourself some leeway, particularly above the 12th fret, but otherwise strive for this positioning.

Hopefully everyone knows I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence with what may seem like very basic stuff. Along with the 35" scale, proper technique is als very important as you graduate from four strings to five and six. You can really get away with murder on a thin neck with four strings and a 34" (or shorter) scale. But the larger/wider the neck, those habits are exposed and will quickly lead to discomfort and ultimately pain. I hope that helps a bit...

[Late Boomer]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

... there is one thing that a 35" bass will amplify/exaggerate: poor fretting hand technique ... In a nutshell, you've got to play "correctly." What does this mean?

- Park your thumb so the 'print' area is in the middle of the neck. Position the thumb so it's vertical (perpendicular to the neck), and apply just enough pressure to guide your hand laterally.

- Keep your fingers parallel to the frets. The first step will be a great guide, but this may require more concentration than you think, especially at first.

Thanks for the advice. This is all stuff that my instructor made sure to drill into me when I started playing. Desipte that, I know I'm guilty of letting my technique collapse into mush when I'm gigging. I'm moving from a 34" 4 banger to a 35" 5er, so I anticipate that the months of June and July will require extensive rehab of my technique.

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Hopefully everyone knows I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence with what may seem like very basic stuff.

Not at all. Not everyone knows that stuff, and those of us who do don't always pay attention to it. I, for one, needed the reminder.

[VroomVroom]

FWIW, another important consideration is the break angle of the wrist on the fretting hand. Just as with piano players, we need this to be as minimal as possible, and it can be accomplished in a couple of ways...

- Wear the instrument higher.

- Angle the instrument, so the headstock is higher than the body.

Obviously a combination of both works well, so experiment and see what works for you. I still remember what a revelation it was to wear the bass a bit higher...everything improved almost instantly - dexterity, confidence, speed, and of course, comfort.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Gard said it much better than I could. IME/IMO, from a playability perspective, I often can't distinguish a difference between a 34" and a 35" bass. Over the entire range of the neck, that 1" is incredibly miniscule. However, and no offense intended to anyone, but there is one thing that a 35" bass will amplify/exaggerate: poor fretting hand technique. The difficulties and pain that I've witnessed in fellow players over the years really speaks to this, especially with players who aren't naturally gifted with large hands/long fingers. In a nutshell, you've got to play "correctly." What does this mean?

- Park your thumb so the 'print' area is in the middle of the neck. Position the thumb so it's vertical (perpendicular to the neck), and apply just enough pressure to guide your hand laterally.

- Keep your fingers parallel to the frets. The first step will be a great guide, but this may require more concentration than you think, especially at first. Give yourself some leeway, particularly above the 12th fret, but otherwise strive for this positioning.

Hopefully everyone knows I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence with what may seem like very basic stuff. Along with the 35" scale, proper technique is als very important as you graduate from four strings to five and six. You can really get away with murder on a thin neck with four strings and a 34" (or shorter) scale. But the larger/wider the neck, those habits are exposed and will quickly lead to discomfort and ultimately pain. I hope that helps a bit...

Jerry, I basically agree. Technique - or lack of - is a big issue. However, I will say that I think my technique is pretty good, and I do notice the 35" scale. I noticed it on my Rob Allen (that is for sale) as will as the Lakland and Modulus I have tried recently. I know it's only an inch over the length of the instrument, but if I feel it on every 35" scale I try, it has to be more than just where the bass hangs.

Maybe my technique isn't as great as I think, I don't know. I do know that there are a few of us here that really feel the 35" thing and we get discounted rather quickly sometimes - not by you, but some others.

I wish I could find a 35" that I liked. God 34" 5 string basses are not easy to find. Even the guys who make good ones - like Sadowsky - have clunkers. I had 3 Sadowsky basses this year. The M5-24 which I liked but "thought" it was too modern and sold it. That had a good B and even response. I should have kept it and I'd get one again if I could sell/trade my Rob Allen. I then tried an MV5 that I didn't care for at all. Not a good B and not very even response. I also had an RV4 that was great - but no B string obviously.

I haven't tried a Roscoe. It's tempting, but I hate to have yet another high end bass that I don't play and can't sell. The Rob Allen is enough.

[VroomVroom]

Steve, definitely a good point. Some folks certainly can distinguish, and are much more comfortable with a 34" scale. For me, it depends on the instrument. And another good point...fretted vs. fretless. Cut me loose on an unlined 35" board, and the world will suffer. I think my goal is just to make sure as many variables as possible are removed from the equation. I've found over the years - and this is just strictly about me - that I can fairly easily adjust to most any instrument. If the sound is there, I'll find a way to play it. An obvious exception was my unlined Roscoe six-string fretless. I struggled with that thing forever before finally crying, "Uncle," and switching to something else.

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by Gard

HOWEVER - the difference between the nut and first fret on a 34" versus a 35" scale length would require a micrometer to measure!

+1

The difference is .050 at the first fret and continues to lessen the higher your go up the finger board (.010 @ the 24th fret).

If you can discern that then you must watch too many chick flicks!

[Gard]

Originally Posted by JOME77

+1

The difference is .050 at the first fret and continues to lessen the higher your go up the finger board (.010 @ the 24th fret).

If you can discern that then you must watch too many chick flicks!

I wouldn't go THAT far!

...while you and I don't really "feel" the difference, some other folks may indeed have an issue with even that .050" difference.

I still believe ergonomics is far more important than scale length, however.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by Gard

I still believe ergonomics is far more important than scale length, however.

Honestly, I think this is the bigger issue.

I have 34 scale basses that feel longer than my Roscoes, by far.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by JOME77

+1

The difference is .050 at the first fret and continues to lessen the higher your go up the finger board (.010 @ the 24th fret).

If you can discern that then you must watch too many chick flicks!

This is what I mean...smiley or not.
Why can't it be OK for some to feel that difference and some to not feel it?

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

Honestly, I think this is the bigger issue.

I have 34 scale basses that feel longer than my Roscoes, by far.

Roscoe is the only 35" I haven't tried.

[bobunit]

Originally Posted by Gard

The biggest ergonomic issue is not the overall length of the string, it's how the whole bass sits on you.

+1 It took me playing a Roscoe (actually several Roscoes, thanks Greg! ) to realize this. I've had a couple of 35" Spectors that I weren't comfortable like my 34" Spectors. I attributed the fatigue to the scale length. Turns out, it was that the way it sits makes it, for me, uncomfortable in the first position. When I played the Roscoes, I never had that issue. Dang... Now I really want an LG!

[bass12]

I generally can't tell the difference between a 34" and 35" based on scale length alone. For me, how the bass hangs has a lot more to do with comfort than the scale length does. I find I have to reach further with my left hand to play an F on a Warwick than I do on a lot of 35 inchers. As for string tension, My almost-35" Status has a lot less tension than my 34" Sadowskys. Same for my 35" 535. I will add that one of the floppiest, most useless B strings I ever played was on a Thumb NT - for what that's worth.

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by SteveC

This is what I mean...smiley or not.
Why can't it be OK for some to feel that difference and some to not feel it?

Come on Steve! Just man up and take charge of a mans bass!

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by bobunit

+1 It took me playing a Roscoe (actually several Roscoes, thanks Greg! ) to realize this. I've had a couple of 35" Spectors that I weren't comfortable like my 34" Spectors. I attributed the fatigue to the scale length. Turns out, it was that the way it sits makes it, for me, uncomfortable in the first position. When I played the Roscoes, I never had that issue. Dang... Now I really want an LG!

Unfortunately, I can't afford a new Roscoe, and there's no where for me to try one locally. I have a Rob Allen to trade for a used one...

[CliffD]

All I know is I have NEVER used a low B string as much as I have since getting my new Roscoe!