Can a Roscoe be made to be passive?

Fishheadjoe · #1 01-05-2010, 01:06 PM

Hey folks!
Greetings from the great white north! I have a LG3000 and I am wondering, curious actually, if it is possible to add a switch to the bass that would allow it to be played passive? Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of this bass, but was wondering if it is possible and if so, has it been done.
Also, if I were to do it, does anyone have an idea of how the Barts would sound without a pre-amp engaged?
A couple of my other basses have the active/passive option and this got me to thinking....
Appreciate your thoughts/experience!
Fishheadjoe

CrashClint · #2 01-05-2010, 01:14 PM

I jumped the gun one time and pulled out my Bartolini preamp before my Demeter arrived two years ago. Well our band got a gig before the Demeter preamp came in so I wired my pickups directly to the output jack. Since I play my preamp zeroed for the most part, the tone was still what I was used to hearing and on the amp all I did was release the input pad button.

As far as I know you can't take a Bart pre passive unless you wire a switch to skip all the electronics. On Audere and Aguilar you can order them with Active/Passive control.

Gard · #3 01-05-2010, 01:51 PM

Yes, you can do it several ways effectively. However we do not recommend it, as the difference between the active and passive output is typically fairly noticeable.

Clint is correct in that the only method is to completely bypass the preamp, so you will have no controls at all.

Fishheadjoe · #4 01-06-2010, 06:34 AM

Thanks guys... my thinking was following this train of thought...
Your playing a gig and your battery dies. A simple switch, say converting the volume knob to a push pull pre-amp on/off swith might come in handy... but if it is not suggested, than obviously a no go... thanks again for the info!
Fishheadjoe

**Bipslapper** · #5 01-06-2010, 08:12 AM

Mr. Fishhead, I have a Carvin 4 string bass that is passive and active- use is as a back up. By pulling up the volume pot the bass becomes passive - just basic tone control works. So far, never had a battery go dead at a gig personally. I asked my local luthier why other companies don't do that.........can't remember what his answer was. I think it is cool for those starting out and don't know that by leaving the instrument cord plugged into the bass you are draining the battery down, even when not being played.
Gard is correct; the difference in output is noticeable, even in the 9 volt Carvin (Roscoe's are 18 volt usually). My 2 cents

Addison · #6 01-06-2010, 11:55 AM

My Lakland 55/94 with the Bart electronics has an active/passive switch and I've never touched it.

I follow three rules with active electronics:

1.) DO NOT use rechargeable batteries. They die differently than standard alkaline batteries. Rechargeable batteries will maintain a fairly high and steady voltage, and will then die suddenly. This is the ONLY scenario I could see where you would be up the creek in the middle of a gig. Alkaline batteries slowly drop in voltage over a period of time... so, even when they get to the point where your bass starts to sound crappy, there will almost always still be enough juice to get you to the end of the gig.

2.) Always use quality name brand ALKALINE batteries. The battery must say alkaline on it... "SUPER ENERGY" or "MAXIMUM VOLTAGE" do not count.

3.) Buy yourself a cheap volt meter and habitually test and/or change them every time you change your strings, or every 3 months... whichever comes first. Think of it like an oil change... but for your bass. It may seem excessive, but I change my batteries once they reach about 8.7 volts or so. It's not like they cost a million dollars and it's always better to be safe than sorry.

Gard · #7 01-06-2010, 12:36 PM

Addison, excellent advice, and similar to how I do things. I've NEVER had a battery go down on a gig of any kind, ever.

Typically, you will hear when they start to get low - lowered output, higher distortion in the signal, etc.

CliffD · #8 01-06-2010, 12:44 PM

I thought about requesting an active/passive switch on my Roscoe, I even spoke to Gard about doing it. But really, every bass I've had that had a preamp with an active passive switch was always played with the preamp engaged.

CrashClint · #9 01-06-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

Addison, excellent advice, and similar to how I do things. I've NEVER had a battery go down on a gig of any kind, ever.

Typically, you will hear when they start to get low - lowered output, higher distortion in the signal, etc.

This is why I love my Demeter preamp, it works between 9 - 27 VDC. I have two 9v batteries in series so I get 18v. My current set of batteries have been in over 9 months. I play at least 10 hours a week practice time and on top of those 10 hours add 2 hour worship practice, 4 hours being played and plugged in Sunday mornings and 4 hours for each gig which is usually two a month. I use Duracell Procells.

With the Bartolini, if you cut back on the gain using the gain pot located in the control cavity and use the passive input of your amp instead of the active you can get almost twice the life out of the batteries.

You can also very easily build a circuit where you can plug your bass into a Wallwart just like an effects pedal uses. Just attach the wallwart cable to your instrument cable with tape and add the jack to the back of the control cavity cover.

Just sayin

Fishheadjoe · #10 01-06-2010, 01:08 PM

I got the idea from my teacher who plays a Dingwal... volume knob is push/pull for active and passive.
I have not had a battery die on my Roscoe yet and it's a year and a half old! I apperciate the advise given regarding batteries and would not think about putting a dollar store battery in a 3K bass! I don't do rechargables for anything, they are just not reliable enough for my liking.
I was really just curious as to whether or not it was do-able and if so, how would the bass sound?
I don't think I would be too worried about a signal drop as my amp (TC RH450) automatically adjusts to the input level of the bass that is plugged in... or am I wrong in that assumption? Would the output be too low?
Fishheadjoe

Darkstrike · #11 01-06-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffD

I thought about requesting an active/passive switch on my Roscoe, I even spoke to Gard about doing it. But really, every bass I've had that had a preamp with an active passive switch was always played with the preamp engaged.

I have a few active/passive basses, and the only one I ever use, has a noticeably fatter tone when passive, and even then, I don't even use it that much.

VroomVroom · #12 01-06-2010, 02:48 PM

Supplementing Addison's great post, I'll state things even more simply: buy Duracell batteries.

I replace mine every three months (see below...I do tend to go four-five months between swaps on my basses with a 9v power source). If anyone is interested, here's a great source: http://www.buybattery.com/

Speaking specifically to battery life, here's what Bartolini has to say (obviously feel free to ignore if you have an Aguilar, Audere, or other pre)

Quote:

Originally Posted by www.catalinaguitars.com

Current consumption of the NTMB-918 tone circuit when using a 9 volt supply is below 750 microamps. This allows for one month of continuous use or six months of average use on one battery!

Current consumption of the NTMB-918 tone circuit when using an 18 volt supply is below 1000 microamps. This allows for more than three weeks of continuous use or four months of average use on a pair of batteries.

They also offer a cool diagram for the NTMB:

Anyway...active/passive. You could say I'm a fan of the NTMB - aside from my so-equipped Roscoe, three of my other basses (including the MTD...which actually has an NTMB-F) have this pre. Two of 'em have the active/passive switch, and I've yet to play in 'passive' mode for more than five or ten seconds.

Also, and this is advice I've received from two amp manufacturers...always use the passive input on your amp if offered the choice. Why have an active bass if you're going to pad the signal before the amp does anything with it? Obviously, if you encounter too hot of a signal, you can make another choice, but nearly every amp on the market is designed to compensate. (And, if you do have the Bart pre, you can adjust the gain pot, as Clint mentioned above.)

CliffD · #13 01-06-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Supplementing Addison's great post, I'll state things even more simply: buy Duracell batteries.

I replace mine every three months (see below...I do tend to go four-five months between swaps on my basses with a 9v power source). If anyone is interested, here's a great source: http://www.buybattery.com/

Speaking specifically to battery life, here's what Bartolini has to say (obviously feel free to ignore if you have an Aguilar, Audere, or other pre)

Anyway...active/passive. You could say I'm a fan of the NTMB - aside from my so-equipped Roscoe, three of my other basses (including the MTD...which actually has an NTMB-F) have this pre. Two of 'em have the active/passive switch, and I've yet to play in 'passive' mode for more than five or ten seconds.

Also, and this is advice I've received from two amp manufacturers...always use the passive input on your amp if offered the choice. Why have an active bass if you're going to pad the signal before the amp does anything with it? Obviously, if you encounter too hot of a signal, you can make another choice, but nearly every amp on the market is designed to compensate. (And, if you do have the Bart pre, you can adjust the gain pot, as Clint mentioned above.)

Word.

LilRay · #14 01-06-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffD

Word.

Lotsa Words

Is it me or are the Roscoeheads the most educated idjuts on TB?

I dig it!

God Bless, Ray

PlanetEarth · #15 01-06-2010, 03:11 PM

He means "werd"...

Another good source for batts: http://www.medicbatteries.com/

12 pack of Duracell Procell 9v's for $16.20 ($1.35/ea.)

Per Jerry's post on power consumption, that should last on average anywhere from 2 - 3 years.

-PE

Eublet · #16 01-06-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

I don't think I would be too worried about a signal drop as my amp (TC RH450) automatically adjusts to the input level of the bass that is plugged in... or am I wrong in that assumption?

Yes, that's not correct. You have to adjust your gain on the RH450 just as you would any head.

VroomVroom · #17 01-06-2010, 03:24 PM

(Tangent...imagine that) ^ ^ Medic is great too. They used to be my go-to, but they occasionally have inventory/processing issues...and depending on your location, the shipping charges can eat up the savings on the batteries themselves. I'm about due, so I just did a quick comparison. On two boxes of 12 9v batteries, the net savings @ Medic would be less than a buck. Plus, Harrison Bros. (aka 'buybattery') is in North Carolina...nuttin' like a little Roscoe karma, eh? Just sayin'.

(/Tangent)

**Freddels** · #18 01-06-2010, 05:18 PM

I love topographical maps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

CliffD · #19 01-06-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanetEarth

He means "werd"...

Another good source for batts: http://www.medicbatteries.com/

12 pack of Duracell Procell 9v's for $16.20 ($1.35/ea.)

Per Jerry's post on power consumption, that should last on average anywhere from 2 - 3 years.

-PE

Werd.

Fishheadjoe · #20 01-07-2010, 07:53 AM

Eublet... obviously I would have to adjust the gain to accomodate a lower lever output from the passive mode. What I meant was the 450 does not have two inputs, one for passive and one for active, the amp accomodates both.
With the pre-sets the amp offers, I could easily set up one channel for active and one for passive.
A "fatter" sound when played passive intrigues me! Not that the bass sounds thin now, but I would be interested in hearing it in passive mode because well, I can/could!
Fishheadjoe