Change of PU and/or preamp on LG3005

[slybass3000]

Hi there,
I'm now the owner of a used lefty LG3005. I love the feel,the size and the tone in the upper register it really sings.
The bass has Bart and Bart. I'm not a big fan of Bart in general,I think the bass lacks some presence,it is a bit closed sonding. I kinda like a sound with not much EQ,I prefer passive when I can.

So from your experience what would be a good change?
-NS PU?
-If I change only the preamp and leave everything flat,do the sound of the PU will change?
- What combi would be good?

Thank you,

Sylvain

[Halftooth]

If by "closed" you mean compressed, then I'd say that a set of Nordys will do the trick, especially if you don't like the Bart tone.

To me, part of the magic is with the Bart/Bart setup, so if you have the Roscoe Barts, maybe a swap to the CBs may be enough to get you where you want it sonically.

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Halftooth

If by "closed" you mean compressed, then I'd say that a set of Nordys will do the trick, especially if you don't like the Bart tone.

To me, part of the magic is with the Bart/Bart setup, so if you have the Roscoe Barts, maybe a swap to the CBs may be enough to get you where you want it sonically.

Thanks for the reply,
I just think that BT PU lack of highs and hi-mids in general. I'm used to a bit more agressive sound than hi-fi. I don't like to rely on inboard eq to get that. So this is why I'm looking at different options from you users of Roscoe.

BTW what CBs is? Is it the model of PU from Nord?

Sylvain

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Halftooth

To me, part of the magic is with the Bart/Bart setup, so if you have the Roscoe Barts, maybe a swap to the CBs may be enough to get you where you want it sonically.

Ok, CB are the classic BT which I have on a custom fretless 5 strings,and I found the same kind of lacking but it is ok for a fretless.

No one else did a replacement from BT to NS on a LG 3005?

Sylvain

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by slybass3000

Thanks for the reply,
I just think that BT PU lack of highs and hi-mids in general. I'm used to a bit more agressive sound than hi-fi. I don't like to rely on inboard eq to get that. So this is why I'm looking at different options from you users of Roscoe.

BTW what CBs is? Is it the model of PU from Nord?

Sylvain

CB's stands for Classic Bartolini. I agree with Halftooth on this one. I think that changing from Roscoe Bart's to the Bart CB's will get you the more open sound that you're looking for. If not, swapping out the Bart pre for the Roscoe Audere pre will finish out the journey to tone heaven!
Keep in mind though, I've had 2 Roscoe's with Nordstrand p/u's and I'm just not crazy about the way they sound.

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by JOME77

CB's stands for Classic Bartolini. I agree with Halftooth on this one. I think that changing from Roscoe Bart's to the Bart CB's will get you the more open sound that you're looking for. If not, swapping out the Bart pre for the Roscoe Audere pre will finish out the journey to tone heaven!
Keep in mind though, I've had 2 Roscoe's with Nordstrand p/u's and I'm just not crazy about the way they sound.

Can you describe the change sonically?

[CLJMB]

I switched out the Roscoe Bart pickups in my LG for Bart CBs and was very pleased with the result. Much less upper mid emphasis, more highs and lows. Overall a more traditional sound than the Roscoe Barts. The traditional sounding pickups matched with the Roscoe pickup placement is a very nice combination IMO.

Joe - I have heard several people say that Nordies and CBs sound similar in a Roscoe. I did not find that to be the case in my CB equiped LG with Bart pre vice my SKB with Nordies and Aggie pre, but that could be because of the differences in preamp, wood, body style, pickup angle, etc. You don't like Nordies...do you like the CBs in your new bass?

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by slybass3000

Can you describe the change sonically?

If you're talking about the sound of the Nord p/u's, I'd describe them as very open sounding and quite a bit thinner sounding than either of the Bart models. To my ears they sounded a bit brittle with too much edge. All model Bart's (IMO) sound darker and have a bit of compression. The Roscoe Bart's are quite compressed, especially in the highs, and have quite a bit of emphasis in the upper mids. The Bart CB's are not nearly as extreme in those area's and the highs are not nearly as compressed sounding.
The Audere pre sounds very good with both brand pickups but to my ears sound better with the Bart CB p/u's (although I haven't heard them with the Roscoe Bart p/u's).

[slybass3000]

Thanks to both of you to comment on this. It gives me some directions.
I don't want to change pre/amp. I think a change of PU will do the trick. There's just something missing in the overall sound for that bass to become one of my mains. It is a fun bass to play. I would like to be satisfied with it.

I own several custom 5 strings basses,+ Fodera, Lull,Rob Allen and this one is really up there too.

Sylvain

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by CLJMB

Joe - I have heard several people say that Nordies and CBs sound similar in a Roscoe. I did not find that to be the case in my CB equiped LG with Bart pre vice my SKB with Nordies and Aggie pre, but that could be because of the differences in preamp, wood, body style, pickup angle, etc. You don't like Nordies...do you like the CBs in your new bass?

Craig,
I've also heard lot's of Roscoeheads state that the Nords and Bart CB's sound similar in a Roscoe. I think that they're referring to the more open sound of the Bart CB's. The Bart CB's aren't near as compressed sounding as the Roscoe Barts and also have less of that upper mid voice.
The Bart CB's are still darker sounding than the Nord's but they do share IMO a more open sound (especially in the highs).
I really like the Bart CB's in the new Spanish cedar LG. It may be that I just don't like the Nord's in an ash Roscoe. They actually sounded much better in my former maple LG. Still a bit too thin sounding to me though.

[slybass3000]

Ok,that is good to know.

Sly

[Snaxster]

Hello, slybass3000. Since no other respondent has yet spoken in favor of switching to Nordstrand pickups, I will

Recently, custom Nordstrand Big Splits were swapped into my LG-3005 fretless. I don't know which model Bartolini pickups it had originally, but if someone tells me how to check, I will (I still have them.)

In my thread Nordstrand customization of the wenge LG-3005, I wrote

"The Big Splits sound great; perhaps more dynamic, tougher sounding, and more hi-fi than the Bartolini pickups."

That was my impression the day after the swap. Since then I have been playing my LG-3005 only in passive mode and using its tone pot (see that same thread above for details.) I've been doing this because the stock Bartolini preamp seems to be dying. This is my workaround pending a new preamp.

One benefit of this constraint has been that I have attended more closely to the sound of the bass and its new pickups, instead of fussing with EQ settings. And it sounds Really Good. With the tone pot completely open, response is flat. Especially at or near that setting, there's nothing to hide behind; my Nordstrand Big Splits relay every nuance of my playing and of the bass's voice. Even with the tone pot rolled off, dynamics and nuance are characteristic of the pickups' output. And to my taste this is all done in a very musical way, not a harsh or technical way.

I don't know which models of Nordstrand pickups folks have used in Roscoe basses and not liked. But I know I like my custom Big Splits in my LG-3005 fretless. Since I can compare their performance to the Nordstrand NJ4SV pickups in my modern Fender Jazz Bass, I have a sense of what the Nordstrand signature sound is. I think that sound is like tube era high-end audio, both studio and live equipment.

When I quit music years ago (I just restarted several weeks ago, btw!), my main amp heads were an old SVT and a perfectly restored (and I mean perfectly, as in 'to the transformer winding') blonde 1961 Fender Bassman. Both were fantastic instruments, but the blonde Bassman ruled as a fierce tone machine. It was my secret weapon in the studio. I think the genre of dynamic, nuanced, musical audio I got from them is basically where my Nordstrand pickups are.

There is never any accounting for taste, of course. This was all just my opinion.

In any case, good luck finding the right pickups for your LG-3005!

Best,

Snaxster

[Funkinthetrunk]

Yup...what Snaxster said.

G

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Snaxster

Hello, slybass3000. Since no other respondent has yet spoken in favor of switching to Nordstrand pickups, I will

Recently, custom Nordstrand Big Splits were swapped into my LG-3005 fretless. I don't know which model Bartolini pickups it had originally, but if someone tells me how to check, I will (I still have them.)

In my thread Nordstrand customization of the wenge LG-3005, I wrote

"The Big Splits sound great; perhaps more dynamic, tougher sounding, and more hi-fi than the Bartolini pickups."

That was my impression the day after the swap. Since then I have been playing my LG-3005 only in passive mode and using its tone pot (see that same thread above for details.) I've been doing this because the stock Bartolini preamp seems to be dying. This is my workaround pending a new preamp.

One benefit of this constraint has been that I have attended more closely to the sound of the bass and its new pickups, instead of fussing with EQ settings. And it sounds Really Good. With the tone pot completely open, response is flat. Especially at or near that setting, there's nothing to hide behind; my Nordstrand Big Splits relay every nuance of my playing and of the bass's voice. Even with the tone pot rolled off, dynamics and nuance are characteristic of the pickups' output. And to my taste this is all done in a very musical way, not a harsh or technical way.

I don't know which models of Nordstrand pickups folks have used in Roscoe basses and not liked. But I know I like my custom Big Splits in my LG-3005 fretless. Since I can compare their performance to the Nordstrand NJ4SV pickups in my modern Fender Jazz Bass, I have a sense of what the Nordstrand signature sound is. I think that sound is like tube era high-end audio, both studio and live equipment.

When I quit music years ago (I just restarted several weeks ago, btw!), my main amp heads were an old SVT and a perfectly restored (and I mean perfectly, as in 'to the transformer winding') blonde 1961 Fender Bassman. Both were fantastic instruments, but the blonde Bassman ruled as a fierce tone machine. It was my secret weapon in the studio. I think the genre of dynamic, nuanced, musical audio I got from them is basically where my Nordstrand pickups are.

There is never any accounting for taste, of course. This was all just my opinion.

In any case, good luck finding the right pickups for your LG-3005!

Best,

Snaxster

Hey Thanks Snaxster,

When you say custom Nord/big split, is this a special model or just a mod in the pre-amp?

I'm curious about those Nord PU. I'm not a big fan of Bart PU actually even if they do sound good for some stuff. I would be curious to know why the custom bart sound different then the Classic.

Is the Nord are direct replacement for the Bart and are ok with the bart pre-amp?

Thanks,

Sly

[Snaxster]

Hey Thanks Snaxster,

When you say custom Nord/big split, is this a special model or just a mod in the pre-amp?...

You're quite welcome, Sly.

For a description of what I meant by "custom Big Splits", and other interesting details about the electronics configuration in my LG-3005, read the first post in the thread I linked to in my first reply to you.

Briefly: the Big Split is a standard model of Nordstrand bass pickup. But the Big Split pickups in my LG-3005 have custom windings and custom spacing between the poles.

I think that for any Roscoe LG with its pickups in the slanted position, you would need custom pole positions for Nordstrand pickups. Of course Nordstrand would advise you on all of this if you asked them to do the work.

Is the Nord are direct replacement for the Bart and are ok with the bart pre-amp?

Yes. A number of Nordstrand pickup models bolt right in when replacing the kinds of Bartolini soapbar pickups that Roscoe normally uses. As of this writing, I think those models are Dual Coil (which Roscoe Guitars offers as a factory option), Fat Stack, Big Single, and Big Split.

They should be fine with Bartolini preamps, but depending on the model of pickup there may be different wiring options. Again, Nordstrand would advise you on all this.

Here is info about the Nordstrand bass pickup models.

Best,

Snaxster

[slybass3000]

Thank you very much,this is very helpful,

Sly

[Bass Response]

Hi all,
I have a Bart/Bart set up and wanted to go the other way- more dark and warm, so I changed strings (TI Jazz Flats) and the result was striking - exactly the sound I wanted. Have you tried using different strings. I hear a lot of people on this board are very pleased with some of the DR offerings. Could be worth the try before you go ripping out the guts.

My .02

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Bass Response

Hi all,
I have a Bart/Bart set up and wanted to go the other way- more dark and warm, so I changed strings (TI Jazz Flats) and the result was striking - exactly the sound I wanted. Have you tried using different strings. I hear a lot of people on this board are very pleased with some of the DR offerings. Could be worth the try before you go ripping out the guts.

My .02

I don't think I wanna go the other way but I'll give it a try because I remenber putting those strings on a 4 when I was surprise by the result.
So they make a xtra long scale set for 5 ?

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by slybass3000

I don't think I wanna go the other way but I'll give it a try because I remenber putting those strings on a 4 when I was surprise by the result.
So they make a xtra long scale set for 5 ?

The STD. TI strings that I've used actually fit on a Roscoe. Here's the dim's that the TI rep. sent me a while back:

Total overall length:

C= 47.88"
G= 47.38"
D= 47.88"
A= 48.00"
E= 49.88"
B= 48.38"

From the ball end to the start of the silk wrap at peg head end (vibrating length)

C=37.26""
G=37.63"
D=37.38"
A=37.50"
E=37.75"
B=36.88"

There's about 3/4 of an inch of silk at the ball end and over a foot of silk wrap at the top. In a pinch, you can shave off about 3/4" to 1" of silk at the top before the first taper starts.