Comparisons between LG-3000 and Century Standard...Pickups or preamp change ?

Funky Stuff · #1 06-03-2011, 11:07 AM

Hello,

I've read dozen of threads about pickups/preamp change on a Roscoe but I've always some questions.

Here is the story...

I have a great century standard 4 for some years now that is becoming my main bass. It has the stock Barts CB / Bart NTMB preamp. A real cutting bass in a dense mix and a wonderful sound !

I have received a few days ago a beautiful LG 3000. It has the same woods than my century : swamp ash body and pau ferro fingerboard. After having setup the bass exactly as my century I was surprised to discover it has such a different sound ! For sure it's the same family but there is some significative differences. And soundwise I thing that these 2 basses sound equally good but are voiced differently.

After a long time of tests and comparisons between these 2 basses, I think that for my taste :

- General sound on the lg : darker, more compressed, smoother, thicker than the century
- Genreral sound on the century : punchier, clearer, more dynamic than the lg

- I prefer the bottom end of the lg which is really deep and full with stronger low mids
- I prefer the high end of the century which is clear and less compressed.

- The bridge pickup is a real beast on the century

- The neck pickup has such a good tone on the lg

So in the perpetual quest for ultimate tone I had some ideas.

Why not to change the Bart pre on the lg for an aguilar and keep the roscoe/bart pickups. I have already tried the aggie in another bass and I know it's clear, punchy and quite voiced in the high mid. I would keep the deep and fat low mid of the pickups with the more agressive high mid of the aggie.

And another silly idea. Why not mixing roscoe/barts with bart cbc pickups. The cbc at the bridge and the roscoe/bart at the neck. The best of 2 worlds : a thick pb tone on the neck pickup and a real growly bridge pickup. Is it possible to do this electronically ? Is it a so stupid idea ?

Sorry for my poor english, I do what I can ! And thanks for your future answers !

Darkstrike · #2 06-03-2011, 12:15 PM

Anything's possible really, and since you have each handy, maybe it's worth a quick bridge pickup swap(as it's an easy job), see whats what.

JOME77 · #3 06-03-2011, 02:38 PM

I suspect that you're primarily hearing the difference between the Bart CB's on the STD and the Roscoe Bart's on the LG.
That and the fact that the basses are made out of different pieces of ash. Not all ash sounds the same. Ash can sound quite different depending on the density of the wood. You can usually judge that by the weight.

Now how you tailor the sound of each can be a bit of a crap shoot. I'd love for you to swap out and mix one of the Bart CB's with one of the Roscoe Barts. I've always been curious of that. But I've also been concerned that they wouldn't be balanced very well and might create more serious issues.

Personally I'd drop in a Demeter pre in the Century STD and call it a day. That would create a much more open tone in the CS and you'd still have the traditional sound of the Roscoe in the LG.

Funky Stuff · #4 06-03-2011, 03:16 PM

For the pickups I just wondered if a mix of barts could be dangerous for the preamp or if someone had already did it before.

Of course the difference is coming mainly for the pickups as it is nearly the only difference. This and the purpleheart in the neck. And the angled pickups. They weigh almost the same weight.

The century is really good for me and quite open. That is the lg that I would like to modify.

I could put some cb in it but it would become certainly the twin of my century.

Gard · #5 06-03-2011, 03:33 PM

As usual, Joe's pretty on the money ('cept for the Demeter pre, but that's another story...oh and black hardware on standards...

).

"Mixing" the pickups (CB's and custom wound) won't hurt anything, but you may find it difficult to get a good volume balance between the two pickups. However, it will let you hear the difference between the pickups in each of the basses.

And I agree, that purpleheart center in the LG 3000 neck has some impact on your tone, Funky. (Joe's right about the different pieces of ash also)

Funky Stuff · #6 06-03-2011, 03:52 PM

I've already put some black knobs on the standard

Was the black hardware so more expensive to produce the standard ?

Ok, for the pickups. So it could be a good test but difficult to setup correctly.

In fact, it's the lack of punch/high end and the compression that annoy me the most in the lg. It's coming certainly for the pickups but I know the bart preamp also compress and darken the sound. So was the idea of the aguilar.

I don't know the demeter at all and it's totally unknown here in France and it seems to be quite hard to find. How is it compared to the bart and aggie ?

And I also tried some Nords Fat Stacks in my century(without preamp, direct to the jack) and I didn't like at all. A way too harsh for me. So I know too bright pickups are not the solution for me.

Funky Stuff · #7 06-04-2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

And I agree, that purpleheart center in the LG 3000 neck has some impact on your tone, Funky. (Joe's right about the different pieces of ash also)

Gard, how do you think the purpleheart lamination effect the sound toward maple or wenge ?

And for the ash I suppose the heavier is the ash the brighter it sounds ?

DGbass70 · #8 06-20-2011, 10:41 AM

Let us know the outcome on this since i have a similar issue and would like to know what the options are.

chadds · #9 06-23-2011, 11:32 AM

The CBs are more "jazz" sounding while the originals are more "p" sounding. If you love the SKB leave it alone. These changes can take you down a slippery slope. Remember you want your basses to sound different from each other. Then you select them for different bands, songs, recordings or how you feel that night.
A change from the stock D'Addarios to some DR Sunbeams adds all kinds of color. That being said I love the D'Adds on one Roscoe.
Personally I love aggressive preamps. The Dem and Audere can be so subtle that they can't adjust for dominant woods.

Supertanker · #10 06-24-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadds

Personally I love aggressive preamps. The Dem and Audere can be so subtle that they can't adjust for dominant woods.

The key to the Audere being aggressive is the gain control on the preamp.

There are two internal pots (one for each pickup) adjusted at the factory to give the same output as passive pickups.

Crank 'em up! The Audere becomes a BEAST!

It only works in Low Z mode...

JOME77 · #11 06-24-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supertanker

The key to the Audere being aggressive is the gain control on the preamp.

There are two internal pots (one for each pickup) adjusted at the factory to give the same output as passive pickups.

Crank 'em up! The Audere becomes a BEAST!

It only works in Low Z mode...

The internal gain controls are locked down on the Roscoe Audere so that wouldn't be an option.

Supertanker · #12 06-24-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOME77

The internal gain controls are locked down on the Roscoe Audere so that wouldn't be an option.

Isn't that special? (church lady voice)...

Gard · #13 06-24-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supertanker

Isn't that special? (church lady voice)...

Well, when we first started doing the Audere pre, it was suggested to keep the cost down so we could price it competitively to what the aftermarket price was.

The later versions did NOT have the internal gain controls missing. However, we now no longer offer the preamp as an OEM option, so so it shouldn't be an issue, if you add it to your bass.

chadds · #14 06-24-2011, 07:51 PM

You learn something new everyday.
Even on TB.

Funky Stuff · #15 06-27-2011, 04:08 PM

> chadds : You're absolutely right about the strings. I had some Nickel d'Addario on the LG and I found it way too dark for my taste.

I thought the solution was the steel strings to open the sound and I put some Marcus Miller DR Hi Beams. Still not very pleased.

So I put my favourite strings for all of my basses : the dr lo rider nickel. Wow ! These strings are really very good. Great sound on the LG, a perfect match. And great tension as I like.

And I don't think I will change the preamp. The CS and the LG are really complementary.

The LG for the BIG sound and the solid low medium and the CS for its rich and colorful mids and hi mids.

Next step : test with lower pickups settings. I love my basses with really high pickups for precise and responsive sound. But I wonder how it could sound with pickups set lower.

What is your favourite pickup height for your roscoes ?

Edit : I have also tested the CS and the LG in passive mode, direct to the jack. It really open the sound and I found it more dynamic also.

CrashClint · #16 06-28-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

"Mixing" the pickups (CB's and custom wound) won't hurt anything, but you may find it difficult to get a good volume balance between the two pickups. However, it will let you hear the difference between the pickups in each of the basses.

Yep, tried this and the CB pickup had a higher output level. You could go with two volume controls but again a pain to adjust on the fly. I guess you could install a hard stop on the volume pot for the CB pickup. I prefer to set my volume a 3/4 for sound check just so I have a little something extra so adjusting two knobs would be a pain. I guess you could add a resistor to the CB but it would also alter the tone.

As Joe stated, add the Demeter to the LG and be happy or buy a Roscoe with the J pickups and be extremely happy.

Funky Stuff · #17 10-16-2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGbass70

Let us know the outcome on this since i have a similar issue and would like to know what the options are.

For those that would be interested, I have changed the bart preamp in my LG for a 3 band glockenklang.

It's an INCREDIBLE improvement

I still have the big, fat sound of the barts pickups but the glock really open the sound. It is far less compressed and the sound is really more punchy and dynamic. That's exactly what I was looking for.

So quad coils barts + glock preamp = perfect match

IMHO bart preamp is not a good option for the quad coil pickups of the LG / SKB line...

(I still have my century standard all original which is also very very good)

Darkstrike · #18 10-16-2011, 08:15 AM

Interesting.

I have Glock pre's in two other basses, never thought of popping one into a Roscoe, but I really like the Bart pre.

JOME77 · #19 10-16-2011, 10:59 AM

I've never had an opportunity to hear the Glock in a Roscoe but from I hear it would probable be close to how the Demeter sounds in a Roscoe (which IMO is very good).

Sounds like your fine tuning your sound nicely.

Darkstrike · #20 10-16-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOME77

I've never had an opportunity to hear the Glock in a Roscoe but from I hear it would probable be close to how the Demeter sounds in a Roscoe (which IMO is very good).

Sounds like your fine tuning your sound nicely.

If the Demeter sound is like the Glocks, I can certainly see why you're a fan.