the cw on cedar

**nostatic** · #1 10-22-2010, 10:01 AM

Ok, I've been listening to various clips here (note to self: nominate Greg for salesman of the decade award), and I'm trying to get a grip on how the woods generally influence Roscoes. Each builder seems to have a different take on the importance of wood, electronics, etc. I'm a firm believer that wood does impart an inherent tone (clearly not the only factor or ever major one), but also each piece is different, hence the variation in tone. Then again I believe in satan clause so consider the source.

Anywho I'm sorting my fretted options and cedar has come up as a candidate. My Zons (which also had Barts) were all ash with fancy top and I like their tone. However I never liked Sadowskys that were ash/maple, but then again the fingerboard is another variable.

Seems that cedar is somewhat of an alder equivalent - a little rounder and warmer than ash. Is this the conventional wisdom? I haven't seen a lot of other cedar instruments. I'm wondering if some of that roundness can be dialed out, or do you get what you get? In general it seems that it is easier to tame a really live bass than brighten up a warm one, but maybe I'm just listening to too many clips. That's what happens when you're home sick...why does it always happen when I've got gigs tonight and tomorrow? Arrgh...

CrashClint · #2 10-22-2010, 10:16 AM

Put an Aguilar or Audere preamp in the bass and it would take some of the rounded tones of the cedar away.

IMHO cedar is softer in the mids with an overall less bite.

You can use the preamp choice to add more mids if that is what you are wanting, but set flat the cedar will be softer than the ash in the mids.

**nostatic** · #3 10-22-2010, 10:39 AM

I find mids to be "king" for cutting through a dense mix, but always worry about having to add in eq. Like some others, my OCD prefers to have everything in the detent. Not sure the point of having active eq, but it is there if I want it. Yeah, that's it...

That said, the LG fretless with a bit of mid boost and favored towards either pup just killed. That was spalt/ash though.

bassWR · #4 10-22-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashClint

Put an Aguilar or Audere preamp in the bass and it would take some of the rounded tones of the cedar away.

IMHO cedar is softer in the mids with an overall less bite.

You can use the preamp choice to add more mids if that is what you are wanting, but set flat the cedar will be softer than the ash in the mids.

+1. IMHO, the mids on the Bart preamp cranks in plenty of bite when you need it. I love that rounded tone of the cedar bodied Roscoes.
My bass is mahogany though.
Where is Joe? He is a lover of all things cedar.

lsu921 · #5 10-22-2010, 12:28 PM

Cedar will be a lot like mahogany. A little rounder and a little less punch. If you were happy with the ash Roscoe I'd stick with that. That's my favorite core wood on a Roscoe; well on anything for that matter.

**nostatic** · #6 10-22-2010, 01:30 PM

it's funny because I've never liked any Sadowsky ash basses, but I think it may be the combination of the body and the preamp. I get why guys dig it, but just not my sound. To me the Roscoes have more mid snarl in them. I played the maple/cedar fretless that I picked up used again today and I like it more than the first time I tried it. Still have a gut feeling that ash is the "right" wood, but as Jerry says, wood is psychotic (and so am I!).

CliffD · #7 10-22-2010, 01:42 PM

Dude just call Gard, he's played more Roscoes that anyone here and can offer the best advice. Also check with Greg, he's certainly played a lot of Roscoes to.

Gard · #8 10-22-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsu921

Cedar will be a lot like mahogany. A little rounder and a little less punch. If you were happy with the ash Roscoe I'd stick with that. That's my favorite core wood on a Roscoe; well on anything for that matter.

So...what you're saying here...is....

...you're an ASH MAN!?

LilRay · #9 10-22-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassWR

+1. Where is Joe? He is a lover of all things cedar.

Loving his NEW thing cedar I'm sure....

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.......

God Bless, Ray

CrashClint · #10 10-22-2010, 02:29 PM

With a fretless the mid is paramount so Ash may be your best bet. If you go with a fretless Cedar, you may want to seriously think about the Audere as the two bands of mid could really dial in some killer tone.

There are so many combination's of Pickup'Preamp where you can really tweak the sound. If you go with the Roscoe Barts, I would go with the Bart pre. If you go with Classic Barts I would go with the Audere.

CactusmanDoug · #11 10-22-2010, 03:16 PM

I've only handled 4) Roscoes to date (all of which I've owned),2) Cedar, 1) Ash and 1)...

ALDER!!!

All three have their own desirable flavor but the Alder is my true love.

**nostatic** · #12 10-22-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashClint

With a fretless the mid is paramount so Ash may be your best bet. If you go with a fretless Cedar, you may want to seriously think about the Audere as the two bands of mid could really dial in some killer tone.

There are so many combination's of Pickup'Preamp where you can really tweak the sound. If you go with the Roscoe Barts, I would go with the Bart pre. If you go with Classic Barts I would go with the Audere.

My fretless on order is ash. Right now the hunt is for a fretted, so the question becomes grab a ready-to-go cedar or order an ash. For pre I think I'm perfectly happy with bart/bart so I'm avoiding thinking about changing things up. I don't want to go down yet another rabbit hole of tone

**oilfieldtrash** · #13 10-22-2010, 04:23 PM

This is great info! I'm gassing for my first Roscoe F-less and this is good data!
Evidently Barts/Barts is the deal for P-ups, so then I guess the type of top on an Ash body(again, evidently preferred) would determine the more subtle nuances?

JOME77 · #14 10-22-2010, 04:27 PM

If beauty is in the eye of the beholder then sound is in the ear of the beholder!

NOTHING sounds as good to me as a Spanish cedar bodied Roscoe.

End of story. But it's a true story!

And for the record, I've never seen a Roscoe that lacked mids. Never! .......and I've had a few.

Spanish cedar is in the Honduras mahogany family but it's much more acoustic sounding than mahogany and FAR lighter.

Pete Skjold builds a lot of Spanish cedar bodied instruments too.

kesslari · #15 10-22-2010, 04:29 PM

You're moving away from the Zons?

**nostatic** · #16 10-22-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

You're moving away from the Zons?

Sold the fretted Zon awhile back. My last Lightwave fretless will be going to a buddy in San Diego. Looks like I'll have Rob Allen/Roscoe combo which ends up as a yin/yang of bass, at least to my ear.

kesslari · #17 10-22-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

Sold the fretted Zon awhile back. My last Lightwave fretless will be going to a buddy in San Diego. Looks like I'll have Rob Allen/Roscoe combo which ends up as a yin/yang of bass, at least to my ear.

Interesting. You're the second person I know (Jerry being the first) to move from Zon to Roscoe. Funny to me because I feel I'm really finding my voice on the Zon. But that's why there are different musicians, and different instruments.

The Roscoes are wonderful. Enjoy that bad girl when she comes.

**nostatic** · #18 10-22-2010, 10:57 PM

The Zons are great basses. Part of my migration was driven by the Deep 5. I got hooked on 35" scale and wood necks. The Zon still wins on stability - over 10 years I never had to touch anything on the setup. I think that Zon and Roscoe are two brands that really have their own fretless sound.

Gard · #19 10-23-2010, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

Interesting. You're the second person I know (Jerry being the first) to move from Zon to Roscoe. Funny to me because I feel I'm really finding my voice on the Zon. But that's why there are different musicians, and different instruments.

The Roscoes are wonderful. Enjoy that bad girl when she comes.

I'm a third then.

My main gigging bass for over 6 years was a Zon Sonus Special 5 fretless. Fantastic bass, no doubt.

Got my first Roscoe (Century Signature VI fretless) about a year after I got here, thinking I'd have a killer 5 and a killer 6 string fretless. Played the CSVI6 for a day, posted the Zon in the classifieds. I knew that as good as the Zon was, it was going to be sitting in a case after I played on that fretless a few minutes....however, you're dead on the money, if what we did was right for EVERYONE, well...that'd be kinda boring, wouldn't it?

Pete skjold · #20 10-23-2010, 09:56 AM

One thing I haven't seen stated here but is worth mentioning is the fact that spanish Cedar also adds to the treble range when used. I haven't found this to be the case with other body woods. You can get a nice open full range tone from cedar but it can sound scooped because the lows are full and prominent and the highs are accentuated. So the mids will seem soft. If you use pickups with a good amount of mid precence that will give the bass an even tone through out. Be careful to pick a fingerboard that is not too bright like maple unless you really want the top end to sizzle. Some of the fingerboards I have used to help fill the upper mids up without adding to the treble on a cedar body are morado, cocobolo, and bocote. You could also use katalox or ziricote. Morado is still pretty bright but sounds good.
Alder in my experience is very different tonally. It seems to have a much more focused midrange and less lowend and leass treble. It works great with maple and rosewood and also make a great body for fretless basses where uppermid focus is desired.

I have made several S. cedar bodied basses and heard several roscoes with s.cedar and the roscoes with the bart package sound really good across the full spectrum of tone. Spanish cedar is also very light weight so that could be a determining factor.

Pete