Demeter = me no likey! Help!

[Snarf]

The bass: SKB3005, ash body, 5A quilt top, Bart pups, Demeter pre.

So I've become really dissatisfied with the tone from my Roscoe, because I very rarely play out of my own amp, which I have totally figured out (it's an SWR too which is nice). But most of the time I play out of strange amps (often low quality) and I have found it to be extremely difficult to get this bass to sound good.

The tone that I hear coming from the pre is thin, twangy, with unfocused mids (no matter how much you tweak, at either 400 or 800 Hz), and all the details of notes above C above low E are pretty much gone. It's not a battery thing, trust me.

So would switching to a Bart pre give me some phatness, and some more focused mids? I find I like the voicing of passive Fenders for mids, which are very focused. Will a Bart get me there?

Syles I play: Jazz, R&B, new age, jam band, D&B, etc.

[sha975]

Originally Posted by Snarf

The bass: SKB3005, ash body, 5A quilt top, Bart pups, Demeter pre.

So I've become really dissatisfied with the tone from my Roscoe, because I very rarely play out of my own amp, which I have totally figured out (it's an SWR too which is nice). But most of the time I play out of strange amps (often low quality) and I have found it to be extremely difficult to get this bass to sound good.

The tone that I hear coming from the pre is thin, twangy, with unfocused mids (no matter how much you tweak, at either 400 or 800 Hz), and all the details of notes above C above low E are pretty much gone. It's not a battery thing, trust me.

So would switching to a Bart pre give me some phatness, and some more focused mids? I find I like the voicing of passive Fenders for mids, which are very focused. Will a Bart get me there?

Syles I play: Jazz, R&B, new age, jam band, D&B, etc.

That's funny because I find that the demeter/bart combo was and still is one of the best combos you could have in a Roscoe. The sound was anything but thin, twangy and unfocused. Maybe something wrong with the pre or one of the pups. I'd start by checking the pups with a ohm meter.

In fact, I now remember one time having a Roscoe where one of the pups was grounding out and giving me a real thin sound. The problem was that the wire was pinched and grounding out on the bass itself due to overtightening the pups screws. Just my thoughts.

[youngs]

Originally Posted by sha975

That's funny because I find that the demeter/bart combo was and still is one of the best combos you could have in a Roscoe. The sound was anything but thin, twangy and unfocused. Maybe something wrong with the pre or one of the pups. I'd start by checking the pups with a ohm meter.

In fact, I now remember one time having a Roscoe where one of the pups was grounding out and giving me a real thin sound. The problem was that the wire was pinched and grounding out on the bass itself due to overtightening the pups screws. Just my thoughts.

100% Agreed. those demeter/bart combo was my all time favorite before I tried Audere/bart , but still it sound amazin.

[LifeIsBass]

Originally Posted by Snarf

The tone that I hear coming from the pre is thin, twangy, with unfocused mids (no matter how much you tweak, at either 400 or 800 Hz), and all the details of notes above C above low E are pretty much gone. It's not a battery thing, trust me.

That's strange. I have the Bart/Demeter combo and my bass punches through like crazy. Plenty of focused mids. I do have a mahogany body rather than ash but as mentioned previously, I'd say something else is wrong.

[lsu921]

I have a Demeter in my current SKB with Nordstrands, and had a Demeter in a previous SKB with Barts.. Both sounded great to my ears. There could be a problem, or it could just be a matter of preference. I do find the Demeter to be very transparent. The Bart will thicken things up for you I think. An Aguilar will also give you a more aggressive mid if that's what you're after.

P.S. If you sell the Demeter let me know. I have a friend that wants one. He has a Bart in his, and prefers the tone of mine.

[emjazz]

Go to my myspace page and listen to the first two clips. That was my first Roscoe (long time ago) and, as far as I know, the first Roscoe with a Demeter preamp. Mine was a one piece myrtle burl body/purpleheart fingerboard/demeter preamp. It sounded sooooo good. The body was just too heavy for me.

Have your bass checked out (I know there's a great tech over by Berklee). If you find that it's just the preamp that you don't like, get the Aguilar 3 band. It'll make your bass more aggressive sounding, and the mid eq will help you cut through for sure.

[CrashClint]

Myself, I took out my Audere and put in a Demeter. I have always just liked the mid scoop of the Demeter. On the other hand you have Jome77, Basso Gruvitas and Youngs who prefer the sound of the Audere. Both are very good sounding preamps. It all comes down to, is the sound you are hearing in your head the same sound that is coming out of your bass. For me, it is the Demeter with the Bartolini Classic pickups

Originally Posted by Snarf

So would switching to a Bart pre give me some phatness, and some more focused mids? I find I like the voicing of passive Fenders for mids, which are very focused. Will a Bart get me there?

Syles I play: Jazz, R&B, new age, jam band, D&B, etc.

Looking at your styles, I think the Audere may work better than the Bart preamp.

[emjazz]

I always loved the sound of the old Tyler basses so much with the Bart pickups and Demeter preamp. I knew that putting a Demeter in my first Roscoe would work. I was very pleased.

I will say this....the last Roscoe that I had, Demeter made me a custom preamp. It was the Tyler preamp but with the Roscoe spec'd mids. For whatever reason, that bass ended up sounding thinner than my first bass with the standard Roscoe preamp. It just didn't work in that last bass (mahogany body/maple top).

[Halftooth]

I've found the Demeter to be anything but unfocused.

It's transparent, that's for sure, and at times, if you want a little more mid-present sound, you probably would have to dime the mid-volume just to get it close to the sound in your head, but outside of that, it's the all-time best preamp that's been paired with the Roscoe-Bart pickups IMO.

[Andrew W.]

Back in the day, when I was choosing between the Demeter and the Bart pre, Jay from BBHB told me "It's nothing to lose sleep over." While the Bart may give you some more "phat", the average listener will hear absolutely no difference at all, and it won't solve the problem of having bad tone from bad amplifiers.

If you're having bad tone from bad amplifiers, bring your own amp. Get a compact head and a compact cab combination that you like and haul that b!tch from gig to gig and/or cop a DI and plug into the PA. If you're playing through a solid state Ampeg with rotten cones that the house provided, your bass is going to sound like that.

Two more things you should think about are excessive EQ tweaking and your playing. The Demeter never sounds as good as it does flat, with only slight boosts or cuts when and where you need it. And the selling point of the Demeter is that it does not color the natural tone of the bass, so if your bass sounds like ish, you might need to hit the woodshed (what I've had to do recently :).

[Snarf]

Here's the thing though, I really hate the Demeter when it's flat. The treble hurts my ears, there's no bass, and the mids are just blah. Even through my own amp the Demeter flat is weaksauce.

The amp I have the most trouble with is the old Fender Bassman 100 15" blackfaces, which is all Berklee uses. This is a pretty "standard" amp, and I don't think it's too unreasonable to want a $4000 bass to sound good out of an amp that's found everywhere.

I think I'm gonna work on scoring a Bart pre.

[emjazz]

Originally Posted by Snarf

Here's the thing though, I really hate the Demeter when it's flat. The treble hurts my ears, there's no bass, and the mids are just blah. Even through my own amp the Demeter flat is weaksauce.

The amp I have the most trouble with is the old Fender Bassman 100 15" blackfaces, which is all Berklee uses. This is a pretty "standard" amp, and I don't think it's too unreasonable to want a $4000 bass to sound good out of an amp that's found everywhere.

I think I'm gonna work on scoring a Bart pre.

If that's what it sounds like than there's something wrong with your preamp. Have it checked out first. Also, try the Aguilar over the Barolini...really. I remember getting a Roscoe with the Bart/Bart combo and playing a rehearsal in one of the Berklee practice rooms.....that bass was gone within a week....I do think it had something to do with the spanish cedar body..but the bart/bart combo didn't help. It sounded much too dark. It didn't cut through at all. The Aguilar will be more aggressive but also more true to the sound of the pickups. You'll definately cut through with the Aguilar.

I've also had a lot of trouble with those stupid amps in the rehearsal rooms. Those amps are the worst. One thing I've done to make them work better for me with any bass is to bypass the preamp of the amp by plugging directly into the effects return of the amp...you'll need something to boost your signal (I've used an MXR M-80 DI+ with great success), but you'll get a much better tone out of those amps that way every time. Try it out.

I will say that it's a mark of a great bass if it sounds good through those stupid amps....the one that I have now does it very well (Delano pickups/ACG preamp).

[coyoteboy]

Originally Posted by CrashClint

Myself, I took out my Audere and put in a Demeter. I have always just liked the mid scoop of the Demeter. On the other hand you have Jome77, Basso Gruvitas and Youngs who prefer the sound of the Audere. Both are very good sounding preamps. It all comes down to, is the sound you are hearing in your head the same sound that is coming out of your bass. For me, it is the Demeter with the Bartolini Classic pickups




Looking at your styles, I think the Audere may work better than the Bart preamp.

Care to elaborate on the Demeter/Bart Classic combo?

I have the Dem already, thinking of pup options...

thx.

[CrashClint]

Originally Posted by coyoteboy

Care to elaborate on the Demeter/Bart Classic combo?

I have the Dem already, thinking of pup options...

thx.

To me the classics give you full range of the Demeter. You no longer have the compressed sound. The bass seems cleaner and more focused. The highs seem to be more open. I can go from finger style to slap and get a real nice slap tone without boosting the highs and putting the balance at about 2 o'clock you can get even a cooler sounding slap tone. On the mids, you can actually hear a difference when using the mid switch. I put the mids between 10-11 o'clock and flipped the switch and I could hear the mid shift. I really never noticed it much with the stock Roscoe/Bart pickups.

You hear the statement the Roscoe/Bart pickups with the Bart Preamp is like a "P" bass on steroids, well with the Demeter and Classic pickups it is like a more defined jazz bass. The Classics just open up the tone of the bass. I definitely recommend the Bart Classics with the Demeter.

[emjazz]

Originally Posted by CrashClint

To me the classics give you full range of the Demeter. You no longer have the compressed sound. The bass seems cleaner and more focused. The highs seem to be more open. I can go from finger style to slap and get a real nice slap tone without boosting the highs and putting the balance at about 2 o'clock you can get even a cooler sounding slap tone. On the mids, you can actually hear a difference when using the mid switch. I put the mids between 10-11 o'clock and flipped the switch and I could hear the mid shift. I really never noticed it much with the stock Roscoe/Bart pickups.

You hear the statement the Roscoe/Bart pickups with the Bart Preamp is like a "P" bass on steroids, well with the Demeter and Classic pickups it is like a more defined jazz bass. The Classics just open up the tone of the bass. I definitely recommend the Bart Classics with the Demeter.

I've always loved the Bart classics. They seem to be a bit of a sleeper pickup but they're certainly one of my favorites. They still have that Bart warmth but everything is more open from top to bottom.

[coyoteboy]

Well, that sounds like my kinda sound!

Muchos gracias, El Presidente!

(and you too emjazz)

apologies to the OP for the continued hijack...

What model of the CB series, pray tell, is the proper size for the Roscoe?

[emjazz]

Originally Posted by coyoteboy

Well, that sounds like my kinda sound!

Muchos gracias, El Presidente!

(and you too emjazz)

...also, a pickup that is quite similar would be the Delano dual or quad coils. I have the duals in my six string. They're very even sounding from top to bottom. You'll get a little more warmth/low mids out of the Bart Classics but they are more similar than different.

[CrashClint]

Originally Posted by coyoteboy

What model of the CB series, pray tell, is the proper size for the Roscoe?

The classics are the same size as the stock Roscoe pickups. They use the same pickup on both the 5 and 6 string bass. When I bought my classics, I just gave Gard at Roscoe a call and he shipped them the same day. Here is the phone number for Roscoe 336.274.8810.

[Gard]

FYI guys, the size of our 5 and 6 string pickup is the same, however they are not the same pickup under the shell!

We do have some 5 string CBs available, but 6's are still "in development" at this time. We've had a few test pairs, but none to sell....sorry for anyone looking for the 6's, but none available yet...

[CrashClint]

Originally Posted by Gard

FYI guys, the size of our 5 and 6 string pickup is the same, however they are not the same pickup under the shell!

We do have some 5 string CBs available, but 6's are still "in development" at this time. We've had a few test pairs, but none to sell....sorry for anyone looking for the 6's, but none available yet...

I stand corrected

I didn't realize the one's you were testing on the LG were not available yet.

I know Sheldon was talking about using one classic and one Roscoe/Bart in his SKB3006 to try to manipulate his tone. I guess he can't do that until the 6 string classics are available.