Finding THAT mid frequency....

[LightGroove]

Friends and Roscoficiendos.....

Please excuse the rather lengthy and obscure post...

Im looking for some EQ help and where else to turn beside my bretheren on here.

So here it goes....

I realize all Roscoes have the inherit midrange growl...Ive been looking to dial in a nice meaty midrange for quite some time. When I say meat I mean in a ballsy sense . Ive boosted frequencies here...and cut others there and still finding that its escaping me. My issue is when I crank the lower (250-400) i get this honk and overdrive my head....when cranking the uppers (800-1000) I get this harsh nasally sound. I have found that I get close when I set the onboard EQ flat with a slight low end boost but still looking for a little more. When flat the bass almost seems dead ....I then crank the lows and it comes to life but then Im in the boomy realm.

So friends....is this an eq thing, wood thing, preamp thing, string thing, or simple player error

Open to All suggestions...

Thanks and peace
M

[Darkstrike]

I'd try leaving the amp flat, and giving a boost in the low mids on the bass, so crank up the mid knob some and pull out the push/pull.

[VroomVroom]

Hmmm... Surprising. I say that because, assuming we're talking about the gear in your sig file, you've got a pretty mid-happy bass running into a definite mid-happy amp and a punchy cab that seems to really voice those 250-400hz lower mids quite nicely. Nonetheless, I'm betting we can get you there. A few questions...

- What's the environment like where you're struggling for sound? Is it one particular room, everywhere you play, somewhere in between? Big room? Small room? Hard textures (glass, stone, tile) vs softer (wood, carpet, people)?

- How's the sound when you're playing solo, doing a sound-check, etc? How does this compare when you turn things up and you're playing thru an overall mix?

- Obvious housekeeping stuff. Relatively fresh battery and strings? Any other variables - is the cab placed on the floor vs. up high, etc.? Are you using any of the tone shape presets on the amp? (If so...kill 'em, at least for now.)

Personally, I EQ by first finding the instrument's "sweet spot" - the sound that really speaks to me. This becomes my 'default' sound. On both of my Roscoes, that's with the blend centered, and the EQ flat except for the lows, which are boosted slightly, to 6/7 out of 10. From there I use the amp to EQ to the room/venue, with occasional fine-tuning back on the instrument. For example, in a boomy room I'll drop the lows on the amp. But if that takes out the booty as well as the boomy (sorry ), I'll add some back in on the amp and will bring 'em down a bit on the instrument....or I'll boost the low mids as Bill suggested.

A couple of things that come to mind, in addition to Bill's advice...

- Don't forget the blend knob as an EQ tool. In your case, it might be worth slightly favoring the neck pickup. It'll give you more of a 'P' bass sound, but you might hear those meaty low mids you're after. Alternatively, go the other direction and bias the bridge pickup a bit...followed by adding in some low EQ to compensate for this new emphasis on the upper mids.

- When boosting the low-mids, also knock off some of the lows.

- Where's your plucking hand? If you're over the neck pickup, move your hand over the bridge pickup to see what that does for you. In general, it'll be just like biasing the bridge pickup, so you'll gain attack and snarl, at a slight expense to the lower mids...which can be dialed back in with a hint of EQ.

Good luck - I'm anxious to hear how things go.

[Darkstrike]

Ahhh, thats far more informative than my "just boost the mids" attitude, kudos Jerry!

I espcially like the idea of favouring the neck pickup some, to grab some of that meaty P-ish sound...

[LightGroove]

Wow...thats fast service!...This bass is all punch to me but very limited growl if that makes sense...

Anyways...I actually heard those mids Im after in a recent 5 banger I played...I made a comment in another thread. The setup was an Aggie AG500 -> 2 10's I bel. not 100% on the cab... That had me immediately thinking Aggie...but also dont have $1500 to drop on new gear.

I play 100% fingerstyle.I dont slap unless Im goofing off..and goofy it sounds... Hand location - 75% over bridge/pickup gap and 25% over neck pickup or sometimes play over the lowest part of the fretboard for extra whoomph.

On the bass I usually play centered....and do tweak it per song...sometimes favoring the neck for the whoomph...Bass EQ I tend to boost highs 8/10...bass about 8 out of 10 and mids left flat(centered).

The 6.0 head I REALLY like and moreso as a DI...On the head... Slight low boost maybe 1 o clock....I cut the highest mids completely out..so basically mid knob all the way right...boost/cut all the way left...highs about 3 o clock...also push in the hf attack.

The 212's cab really fills a big room nicely but all I really get is pure bass...I love it as I can feel it but as far as definition I dont hear it...I realize it is 2 12's so looking at possibly trying a single 15...used one at practice and liked the note definition...

I am trying a string swap for starters although LOVE these Fatbeams on everything... Im also actually ordering a set of original Roscoe Barts as I think the CB's might be the culprit.

Thanks for those that have taken time to read through the babble..

[Darkstrike]

Ahhhh, there's your problem, you're midscooping, on both the bass and the amp, thats where the growl's gone. And a fair amount of bass boost, both amp and bass, which is probably the cause of the boom and overdrive.

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by LightGroove

Friends and Roscoficiendos.....

Please excuse the rather lengthy and obscure post...

Im looking for some EQ help and where else to turn beside my bretheren on here.

So here it goes....

I realize all Roscoes have the inherit midrange growl...Ive been looking to dial in a nice meaty midrange for quite some time. When I say meat I mean in a ballsy sense . Ive boosted frequencies here...and cut others there and still finding that its escaping me. My issue is when I crank the lower (250-400) i get this honk and overdrive my head....when cranking the uppers (800-1000) I get this harsh nasally sound. I have found that I get close when I set the onboard EQ flat with a slight low end boost but still looking for a little more. When flat the bass almost seems dead ....I then crank the lows and it comes to life but then Im in the boomy realm.

So friends....is this an eq thing, wood thing, preamp thing, string thing, or simple player error

Open to All suggestions...

Thanks and peace
M

LG,

If you're talking about your CS+ Here's how I went about "finding" me with the Preamp (which tonally seems to be similar to what your after). Keeping in mind that this is my first Roscoe as well as my first "active" bass, here goes;

Firstly I spend(spent) at least an hour a day strictly with headphones into a very "flat" setting on my Line 6 Bass Pod XT. (Aside from "Rehearsal").

The Roscoes effortless playability has literally caused me to "retool" my technique entirely. When I first got it, I was naturally plucking over the end of the neck rather than over the pickups. I'm intensly "picky" on how I play & sound so needless to say I've been playing constantly to get to where I am, which is much better now than the sound clips I posted when I first got the Roscoe.

'Nuff 'bout me on to your question;

The preamp thing was all new to me too but this is the way I went about finding "home" as Jerry said. I too like good mids and a warm sound. #1 Micro manage the knobs. For me there is a section of the mids I dig most and a little one way or the other and you'll get frustrated (if you're like me). The knobs are much more sensitive(linear?) than other passive "tone" controls I was used to.

My "home" is a slight boost of the mids (with the knob in the upper position or "out") and a slight cut in the mids (with the knob in the lower position or "in"). Can Somebody educate me on which position is which frequency please. I leave the Bass/Treble flat 90% of the time and use the blend knob as Jerry suggested for tonal changes "on the fly".

It's taken me a while to get comfy and "home" but as I have taken the time, EVERYTHING about my playing has improved 1000%. I'm playing stuff with ease now that I'd struggled with most of my life

If that ain't a "testimonial" to Roscoe I don't know what is.

Good luck, and as Prego pasta sauce says "It's in there" it'll just be a matter of nailing it down. But A little goes a LOOOOOOONG way.



God Bless, Ray

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by LilRay

Can Somebody educate me on which position is which frequency please. I leave the Bass/Treble flat 90% of the time and use the blend knob as Jerry suggested for tonal changes "on the fly".

Pulled out is low mids, pushed in is high.

[LightGroove]

So Dark...is the growl in the upper mids?...I always find them too harsh and why i cut that one area out...I'll tinker some more.

[JOME77]

LG,
I've got to agree with Jerry that based on your amp/cabinet in your profile you should have plenty of mids.
It sounds like, from you description, that you may need to cut come of the upper mids a bit to smooth out the tone (i.e. honky or nasal mid's). I can't remember which pre you have in your Roscoe's but I always struggled with honky or nasal mid tones more with the Bart pre than the others.
I've really gotten to the point that I run all of my amps flat and typically only EQ with my on-board pre. If I EQ on my amp, it's typically to zero in and cut troublesome freq's for some venues.

You also may want to try some different strings. I'm not sure which strings you're using but IMO, nickel strings really help in providing smoother mid tones verse the SS strings.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by LightGroove

So Dark...is the growl in the upper mids?...I always find them too harsh and why i cut that one area out...I'll tinker some more.

Depends on where you're looking for it, honestly, if I'm playing agressive rock and metal, I'd boost the high mids some(almost more of a grind than a growl, really), but if you're looking for a fatter growl(which I believe you are), you're gonna want to grab some low mids, they should thicken things up well, without boom, and add in the growl you need.

Thats all IMHO, of course, gonna want to talk to Gard, Greg, Jerry and the guys some more, they'll know far better.

[LightGroove]

Well...interesting experiment this evening. Borrowed a friends SWR Workingpro 15 combo tonight for a small outdoor gig. After a few minor tweaks I came REALLY close to that sound Im after. Im wondering if the 15 is where its at with me...I did bump this mids (pulled out) on the onbaord and cut the lows slightly...def. made an improvement. Now for a bigger indoor venue tom. to compare the Genz....Ill be running DI and backline with the 212's/

[PlanetEarth]

FWIW: Early on one of my teachers yanked the chord from my bass and said, "find your tone now, it's all in your hands".... Rarely touch an EQ since and never on my own gear - YMMV.

So, not having read the thread word-for-word but just quickly skimming (so I apologize if someone asked already) where's your right hand located, how's the bass resonating unplugged?

Personally I'd start with everything zero'd up and get as transparent a transfer of what's coming off the instrument and your hands. If you can get dialed in by touch and the right combo of input/output gain I think it can only get better from there.

Gotta ask too, are the batteries good, the signal path clean, and the adjustable gain on the back of the control cavity, how's that set? Also, the amp, are you being generous with the input gain on the pre? Personally I like to run the pre input gain up to a slight clip, back off a little then bring the output/power amp up from there, again, YMMV.

Jerry gets great tone from his GB, I'm sure there's some great advice in that essay he wrote about.... (lol, just messin` with ya Jerry)....

Anyway, that's my $0.02

-PE

[CliffD]

My 0.02:

I'm not a huge mid-pusher type dude, all I ever do is put nickel strings on my bass to get more mids and usually don't touch the mid eq on my amp. Once in a while I'll use my bass' pre.

[VroomVroom]

Killin' me, Brian. Kinda' funny though, since we covered a lot of the same ground in our posts...just took me a lot more words to do so...imagine that.

Point of clarification on strings. Making a blanket comparison between nickel and SS is dangerous. IMO it's a function of finding strings with the right mid point that work for you. Using DR strings as an example, Fat Beams (SS) have a high mid point and really speak well in those happy upper mid frequencies that make slapping and grindy fingerstyle playing jump. Sun Beams (nickel) have a much lower mid point and are smoother...even though they do offer some nice snarl.

I've got a love/hate with the D'Add nickels. On some instruments they sound great and on others they sound like butt. And even when they sound good, they only seem to last for a coupla' weeks. IMO/IME of course. My favorite "hybrid" kind of string is Cleartone - they're nickel, but are VERY bright, offering the best of both worlds. Plus they last forever.

Anyway, back on topic. Good luck with the hunt for tone. I wouldn't think a switch from 12" speakers to 15" would add more mids, but obviously you're the one on-site and its your ears that have to be happy.

[ubone]

For what it's worth. Eden WT800, 2 Bergantino HT115 cabs. This rig covers it all, for every bass I own. Plug in either Roscoe and prepare to enter another dimension.

[baltimore]

I think ubone might have something here!

[ubone]

Sadly, and I can't understand this, Bergantino no longer makes the HT115 cabs. You may be able to find one for sale, but that is a pretty rare find. The cabs received killer reviews and even a couple of die hard 15" speaker haters (Munji) changed their minds after listening to these cabs.

[VroomVroom]

^ That actually is surprising. I'm a recent 'convert' to Bergantino cabs, and while I haven't run 15" speakers in many years, I know enough folks that love 'em that this move is a surprise.

I will say, though...HT112ER: holy balls.

[ubone]

Try two.. Massive Balls Deluxe....