Help with Spec'ing Out my First Roscoe ??

[MG Bass]

Hi everyone,

Just looking at putting together spec's for my first Roscoe Bass here in Australia through our Aussie dealer.

This is what TONE and PERFORMANCE GAOLS i'm looking for:

* a very versatile instrument
* lightweight up to around 8lbs max
* tight, quick, burpy but full sound, slightly favouring the bridge pup for fingerstyle playing
* I want to be able to get a reasonable slap sound by blending both pups on
* very present BUT balanced and clear midrange

The model I'm want to go with is a LG3005

Specs I'm thinking which will get me close to this is:

*lightwieght swamp ash body,
*exotic koa or maple top
*Birds eye maple board / maybe wenge or ebony
*Standard Maple/Purple Heart/Maple neck
*Bart/Roscoe pups
*Bart/Roscoe preamp

I'm also thinking maybe a Wedge Wenge Neck might help with getting a nicer balanced BUT clear midrange but I'm not sure on this.

Anyway I'm not set on the specs as I would love to hear from some of you more experienced Roscoe users iwth better suggestions for trying to acheive my tone goals.

Thanking you all in advance.

[VroomVroom]

Good luck and congratulations in advance! I think you're on the right path...looks like you've already given this a lot of thought. A couple of comments, below...

IME you'll be hard-pressed to come in under eight pounds, even with an LG. Is "close" good enough? If not, I'd be VERY careful in selecting a top...probably maple, and probably thin.

If aggressive mids are important, I'd consider the Aguilar pre-amp. Again, IME/IMO, but I find the Bartolini NTMB to be smoother, particularly in that section of the spectrum, whereas the Aggie is a bit more focused and crisp.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses on this. Have fun, and I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[MG Bass]

Hey Jerry,

thanks man. yeah i follow a lot of your commnets on the Roscoes seeing you have quite a bit of experience with them and a nice selection.

On the weight, I am flexible say to around 8.5lbs.

Any thoughts on fingerboards, and whether the wedge wedge neck may help in giving a nice full, punchy midrange BUT clean, I've heard instruments that have a present midrange but it sort of sounds congested, sort of muddy if you know what I mean.

On the Aggy pre, yeahI sort of thought that as well. thanks for the tip.

[bassWR]

Alright I get to beat Joe to the punch. Forget all that talk about woods, electronics and all that other unimportant stuff. What this bass needs is...............................








BLACK HARDWARE!!!!!
Seriously though good looking specs. You can't go wrong with the wenge fingerboard.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

[MG Bass]

Thx Dennis,

so you think a wenge board better over a birds eye maple for what I'm aimimng for ?

What do others think ?

I thought a maple board would be more versatile maybe ??
What about a spalted purple heart board, how would this compare to a maple or wenge??

[ubone]

So far I'm liking your specs for the bass, but 8 pounds?? Could very well be do-able, I'd talk to Gard and find out what he suggests as well. Lately I've come to like diamond wood boards but I couldn't for the life of me tell you how that affects the tone over-all...

[Freddels]

My LG3004 is fairly lightweight. The body is Spanish Cedar. I'm sure if you ask nicely, they can try to pick out a nice lightweight body for you. I also doubt you'll come in under 8 lbs but they can try to make it lighter.

[CliffD]

Originally Posted by MG Bass

Thx Dennis,

so you think a wenge board better over a birds eye maple for what I'm aimimng for ?

What do others think ?

I thought a maple board would be more versatile maybe ??
What about a spalted purple heart board, how would this compare to a maple or wenge??

Call Gard at the shop, he can answer all your Qs with an opinion of someone who has played a TON of Roscoes (DROOL)...oh and he's not a bad guy to boot, just don't say the word "who" or mention anything that sounds remotely like
"dat" and you'll be good. I'm betting the boys at Roscoe can get you in the 8lb range, their wood selection is SECOND TO NONE, my first Roscoe had the lightest swamp ash body I've ever played, and it wuzn't chambered (unlike those ski basses)...if you have to sacrifice the top wood

[JOME77]

My fretted Roscoe weighs in right at 8 lbs. It has a very light piece of Spanish cedar (exhibition burl top).
However, out of 14 Roscoe's that I've owned, it is the lightest. Most weighed in around 9-10 lbs.

That being said, if you communicate to Gard exactly what's critical, he'll do everything in his power to make it happen. I'm sure that they have some light weight ash or Spanish cedar (my personal favorite). I also owned a solid spalted maple Roscoe (actually with a wenge finger board) that was right around ~8 lb's.

Another good option for a finger board (if you dig maple) is African tulipwood. It sound very close to maple and IMO is more stable (certainly stable more so than the birdseye maple). I believe that they (Roscoe) have to install extra graphite in the necks to stiffen their necks when using the maple boards.

I also love the Roscoe Demeter pre on fretted Roscoe's (smooth mids, killer slap tone, smooth bass, glassy highs). They aren't available as a factory option anymore but still can be obtained from Demeter.

........ and of course black hardware.

All basses sound better with black hardware. Of course this is common knowledge 'round these parts!

[Bipslapper]

My Century Standard 5 string is right at 8lbs on the dot. It is (obviously) a solid Swamp Ash body with Maple neck and fb. I think all Roscoes come with the ultralight tuners which I think make a big difference. Maybe a Century Standard Plus?

Call Gard, he'll know,.....oh yeah, don't mention the diva that just landed in Minnesotta

[RTL]

Hey Mark,

Sounds like you've got the makings of a great bass there. A couple of things I'd recommend, based on your tonal goals.

1) Instead of the Roscoe spec'd Bartolinis, you may want to go with the Bartolini CB's. The Roscoe Bartolinis tend to sound darker and less open than the CB's, so if you're looking for clarity and a little more "air" without being too bright and "zingy", I'd go with the CB's. Or, if you can live without the slanted pickups (Personally, I can't.. But whatever..), the Nordstrand DC-5 is an awesome choice. They sound a lot like the CB's - perhaps a touch more agressive though.

(I have two Roscoes - one with the Roscoe Bartolinis, the other with CB's. I think the CB's are closer to what you're going for.)

2) If you're looking for ultimate versatility, go with the Audere preamp. The Z-mode and midrange controls will just give you a mind-boggling array of tonal options. The thing to consider is that there is a great deal more high end coming from that preamp, so extreme settings can get clacky and even a little harsh. If you go with that pre, Roscoe Bartolinis would be my recommendation.

OR

You could just do what I did when I had my Bubinga-topped LG3005 (#6113) built:

Bartolini CB's/Bartolini pre with 3-way midrange frequency switch (Thanks again to Gard for making that happen!). It lets me use the Bartolini pre (which I prefer the sound of over the Audere), while giving me more options.

3) If you're looking for light - don't use Bubinga! It's stunningly beautiful, but I think the word translates to "Depleted Uranium".

[Gard]

Hello, I've actually been in touch with your dealer, George @ Bass Gear Direct in Australia, today.

It seems to me that you're on the right path, I believe we can get you close enough to your weight request - but keep in mind it is impossible to guarantee any specific weight. We can select for as light a weight as possible though, and going with the LG body helps, as it is the smallest.

On wenge for a fingerboard, it's an excellent choice. It won't make a HUGE difference tonally, but I do hear a bit of an effect on the attack of the notes with different fingerboards. I find wenge to be slightly compressed and a bit strong in the mids.

The wenge wedge neck is a personal favorite - I love mine! However, to get it is a pretty strong upgrade price-wise. We only offer it on the Signature models, and it is a $200 upgrade to get the wenge wedge. It does sound a bit different, similar to the fingerboard, it will add more compression and a bit of midrange - just more of an effect than the fingerboard.

If there's anything else we can pitch in and help with, please let us know!

[MG Bass]

Thanks everyone.

Gard, PM sent.

[MG Bass]

Okay it looks like I'm now leaning more towards a wenge fretboard with a wenge wedge neck. Only concern I have is maybe this will be too much mids and the sound may be more muddy and honky.
Should I be sticking with the maple fretboard and wegne wedge neck for a more balanced and versatile combination?
I am a bit of a midrange animal and love mids but they need to be clear not the congested, honky type. More musical if that makes any sense.
The other concern is if I do go with a wenge fretboard with wenge wedge neck, is the swamp ash body the best match for this fretboard neck combination??

Is there a body which will work better??

I always thought swamp ash has nice, tight, powerful lows and resonates better. Any thoughts on this ?

Once I figure out the wood combos then I guess I'll know which pre/pup combination is going to work best.

BTW, on the weight I am pretty flexible, even if it goes to just over 8.5lbs it's still should be Ok. I guess just under 9lbs is the limt.

[VroomVroom]

Ok, let's get the disclaimers out of the way first:

1. My mind is a terrible thing.

2. Wood is schizophrenic, psychotic, and tempermental. Every piece is different. Take two identical basses, and there's always a good chance that one will sound amazing while the other one will stink up the joint.

Ok, that said, here goes.

You've done a great job of defining what you're after, but even at that, the term, "midrange" covers an awful lot of ground. I like ash for the focus, attack, and emphasis on upper mids. Alder, IMO, offers a bit more warmth and highlights the lower mids. Mahogany is a bit like alder on steroids....lotsa' warmth and meat there. I'm very hit-or-miss on Spanish cedar (definitely factor that in - gobviously Keith, Gard, and many Roscoe owners absolutely love it) and find it to be 'soft' sounding (another hard-to-define term).

So, my take for you would be to start with an ash body. Especially if you're considering wenge in there. A maple top is always a solid bet, but I can tell you that I have two myrtle-topped Roscoes, both with ash bodies, and they're midrange monsters. Walnut might be another interesting choice. Realistically though, I'm of the opinion that top woods are there for a bit of focus to the sound, but otherwise should be selected for aesthetics....essentially conceding to the notion that the top isn't going to hugely contribute to the overall sound of the bass. Again...my take, so turn your filters to 10.

Lots of fingerboard options, IMO. I love Roscoe's take on purpleheart, but sommething like pau ferro might work nicely. The neck itself? Man, I'm just a fan of the standard Roscoe neck. The wenge wedge is cool, and I owned a bass with one, but I think you risk getting into that "honky" territory when you use it. I'm guessing it's the open pores, but I know so little about wood that this is a dangerous inguess, but wenge seems to be a bit inconsistent...some basses with it sound great, others sound a bit cluttered in the midrange, and others just sound bad.

Electronics. I love the suggestion of Bart CB's...I'd forgotten all about those. Great idea. That said, Roscoes, with their inherent bridge-biased pickup placement, already speak so nicely in the mids, that a "regular" bass just might do it for you.

So, time to ante up. Based on what you said, what would I spec? Here goes. And remember: the words below and $5 will get you a nice coffee drink.

Ash body - hit up Gard for the lightest pieces, with the tightest grain patterns that he can find.

Maple top - flexible, though. Whatever looks good and isn't too heavy.

Standard neck. It's "standard" for a reason. It works.

Pau ferro fingerboard. Flexible...hit up Gard for his take on this. And factor in looks....the top you choose as well as the finish.

Bart CB's & standard NTMB pre. Small gamble here, but I think it works in your favor. A bit more open across the board, but you'll still have a Roscoe...punchy, focused, and sweet all at the same time. Plus, as my bass guru constantly reminds me...in the scheme of things, pickups are cheap. If you don't like 'em, swap 'em.

And the most important spec. BLACK HARDWARE.

Alright. There's your bass. If it brings a smile, you're welcome. If it stinks, I was never here.

[ubone]

I whole heartedly agree with everything Jerry said. Although I'm kind of surprised that Bubinga hasn't been discussed. You want lots of mids??

Standard neck
Diamond wood fret board
Ash body
Bubinga top

[MG Bass]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Ok, let's get the disclaimers out of the way first:

1. My mind is a terrible thing.

2. Wood is schizophrenic, psychotic, and tempermental. Every piece is different. Take two identical basses, and there's always a good chance that one will sound amazing while the other one will stink up the joint.

Ok, that said, here goes.

You've done a great job of defining what you're after, but even at that, the term, "midrange" covers an awful lot of ground. I like ash for the focus, attack, and emphasis on upper mids. Alder, IMO, offers a bit more warmth and highlights the lower mids. Mahogany is a bit like alder on steroids....lotsa' warmth and meat there. I'm very hit-or-miss on Spanish cedar (definitely factor that in - gobviously Keith, Gard, and many Roscoe owners absolutely love it) and find it to be 'soft' sounding (another hard-to-define term).

So, my take for you would be to start with an ash body. Especially if you're considering wenge in there. A maple top is always a solid bet, but I can tell you that I have two myrtle-topped Roscoes, both with ash bodies, and they're midrange monsters. Walnut might be another interesting choice. Realistically though, I'm of the opinion that top woods are there for a bit of focus to the sound, but otherwise should be selected for aesthetics....essentially conceding to the notion that the top isn't going to hugely contribute to the overall sound of the bass. Again...my take, so turn your filters to 10.

Lots of fingerboard options, IMO. I love Roscoe's take on purpleheart, but sommething like pau ferro might work nicely. The neck itself? Man, I'm just a fan of the standard Roscoe neck. The wenge wedge is cool, and I owned a bass with one, but I think you risk getting into that "honky" territory when you use it. I'm guessing it's the open pores, but I know so little about wood that this is a dangerous inguess, but wenge seems to be a bit inconsistent...some basses with it sound great, others sound a bit cluttered in the midrange, and others just sound bad.

Electronics. I love the suggestion of Bart CB's...I'd forgotten all about those. Great idea. That said, Roscoes, with their inherent bridge-biased pickup placement, already speak so nicely in the mids, that a "regular" bass just might do it for you.

So, time to ante up. Based on what you said, what would I spec? Here goes. And remember: the words below and $5 will get you a nice coffee drink.

Ash body - hit up Gard for the lightest pieces, with the tightest grain patterns that he can find.

Maple top - flexible, though. Whatever looks good and isn't too heavy.

Standard neck. It's "standard" for a reason. It works.

Pau ferro fingerboard. Flexible...hit up Gard for his take on this. And factor in looks....the top you choose as well as the finish.

Bart CB's & standard NTMB pre. Small gamble here, but I think it works in your favor. A bit more open across the board, but you'll still have a Roscoe...punchy, focused, and sweet all at the same time. Plus, as my bass guru constantly reminds me...in the scheme of things, pickups are cheap. If you don't like 'em, swap 'em.

And the most important spec. BLACK HARDWARE.

Alright. There's your bass. If it brings a smile, you're welcome. If it stinks, I was never here.

Thanks Jerry - really appreciate it.

I think I like what you're saying.
It's a little of a concern when you say wenge can sound bad with some instruments and good with others. I don't like the sounds of "honky" and "cluttered in the midrange" in regards to wenge. I love mids BUT they need to be CLEAR. I hope that makes sense.

With Ash do you mean Swamp Ash or Ash itself. I always assumed there was a difference between the two?

Is Pau Ferro more versatile than Maple?
Which will suit the fast, tight fingerstyle playing, slighty favouring the bridge pup?

With regards to Mahogany for the body, not a big fan because of it being heavier and maybe a little overpowering from the other woods being used i.e, top, fretboard, neck etc.

Wow, I'm really doing my head in over this -

BTW, do you think the Roscoe/Bart preamp is a better choice now than the Aggy 3 band as you previously mentioned ?

I've also looked at the Glockenklang 3 Band with the 4 pots setup as another alternative preamp because, it has an active/passive switch and a passive tone control when used in passive mode. Anyone have any experience with these preamps ?

[Pacman]

Jerry just spec'd my bass, except I went with Bart CBs and the Audere 4-band. It definitely will favor bridge pickup tight fingerstyle playing. And if you're like me, you might find yourself rolling to the neck pickup for the first time in your life - seriously, I never liked that sound - UNTIL I got the Roscoe.

My gig requires me to be very versatile. I was listening to a rehearsal our engineer recorded today, and I said "man, that bass sounds good!" and he said (he's also a bass player - and a very good one at that) "the thing is, it sounds good on every tune." That's high praise in my book - and very accurate too!

[VroomVroom]

Originally Posted by MG Bass

BTW, do you think the Roscoe/Bart preamp is a better choice now than the Aggy 3 band as you previously mentioned ?

I've also looked at the Glockenklang 3 Band with the 4 pots setup as another alternative preamp because, it has an active/passive switch and a passive tone control when used in passive mode. Anyone have any experience with these preamps ?

To me, a huge function of "the" Roscoe sound is the electronics. I figure that Keith developed the specs for good reason, and I absolutely love what I think of as the characteristic Roscoe tone. Fat lows, smooth and even highs, and punchy, compressed mids that cut, but don't overwhelm. While that makes for a versatile instrument, it doesn't always make for the be-all end-all sound. In your case, where you're after more clarity in the mids, I'm thinking the CB's might offer that, while the standard pre still yells out "Roscoe!" from the rafters. If you do go with the CB's, the Aguilar OBP-3, IMO, would be too much of a good thing. The Aggie seems to offer a bit of bite and growl in the upper mids and in my experience really works well when you need to fill that void (i.e. my fretless...remove frets and you automatically take upper mids with them).

Definitely trust the other guys on the more "exotic" preamps. I've played one Roscoe (and one Fender) with an Audere pre, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. The Roscoe I played - and I know I keep saying this, but this is totally just my opinion - didn't sound like a Roscoe. While I love having options, and I totally respect Roscoe's take on this as a company, I place a lot of trust in the notion that the standard electronics are spec'd for a reason. A lot of art to go with the science there - specific choices on the electronics, pickup placement, etc. Repeating myself here, but all the great Roscoes I've heard have that characteristic tone.

Finally, I've tried to keep my comments on woods centered around your desire for light weight. I love bubinga, but have always had the impression it's pretty heavy. (Side note: I recently played an Elrick bass with a bubinga fretboard...it was very happy in the mids.) As for ash...definitely swamp ash. That'll be your core in terms of sound and weight. IMO you can get ridiculously low weight, but often at the expense of low frequencies. Even a mid-happy bass has to have some booty, right? But pick the right piece(s) for a body, and you can nail that great compromise between tone and weight.

[Bipslapper]

My opinion: listen to Jerry

..and Gard, Steve,Joe, RTL....

If I may chime in again- my SKB has the classic Bart/Bart pre-amp and pups. I did own a Roscoe with Aguilar pre and Bart Pups, combined with a Sp. Cedar body, Maple top and Cocobolla fb. All things being equal I now think I may want to swap pre-amps for a Aggie. I have 3 active basses w/ the Bart NTMB preamp and all are very focused in the mids; I just think the Aggie was not quite as nasal and brighter. Who knows, perhaps it was the combos of woods? As I said earlier, the other fellas are far more experienced in the Roscoe tone than me.

Another point about weight- the Roscoe basses hang nicely on a strap and that may compenate for any weight going over the 8-8.5 range

You can also use the push/pull mid button witch will make the bass really jump out- I like it when I play live and need volume but don't want to reach back, tweak the amp and get the "hairy eyeball" from the guitarist!

Best of luck, no matter what you decide upon, you won't find a better built bass with a great warranty and loyal following of knuckle, oops, I mean Roscoe Heads!

My 2 cents.