neck pocket fit--side tolerances?

()smoke() · #1 08-22-2008, 10:22 AM

roscoe basses

how much gap between your neck and the body on the sides of the pocket?

typing paper/business card/ etc..

just trying to get an idea of how much variance with the tolerance occurs, if they all have a gap, etc...

thanks!

Snarf · #2 08-22-2008, 11:05 AM

about a business card for me.

JPJ · #3 08-22-2008, 01:30 PM

I see a lot of Roscoes and have a pretty solid opinion on this issue. Objectively speaking, a small gap between the neck pocket and neck should not have an appreciable impact on tone or the structural integrity of the bass. If the neck is bolted solidly, it isn't going anywhere. However, many bass players (due to the horrible fit and finish issues that Fender had in the '70s and early '80s) feel that the tightness of the neck pocket is indicative of the overall quality of the bass. Personally, I don't necessarily disagree.

However, just as there is such a thing as having TOO MUCh of a gap, there is also such a thing as not having ENOUGH space...and this is something that is seldom discussed in these types of threads. If the neck joint is TOO tight, it can create an issue with the finish at that spot on the bass. If the joint is just tight enough to get the neck in place, the finish could also crack at a later date as the neck and body expand and contract due to temperature and himidity variations.

To the question...I always check the neck pocket on each Roscoe that comes through Blueberry Hill. Part of it is out of habbit, the other part is because I know that my customers will be looking at this as well, using it as a method of evaluating the bass (whether that is legitimate or not, based on what you think is important when judging the quality of a bass). Personally, I have been extremely please with the quality of fit and finish at the neck pocket, and haven't seen one that I have even moderately questioned in YEARS! The pocket and neck fit very well together, with just the perfect small allowance for expansion and contraction as to not crack the finish later in the instrument's life. Hope that helps...from someone who has seen more than just a couple.

Gard · #4 08-22-2008, 02:27 PM

Yeah, I love this mythology around the fit of the neck pocket, it's right up there with using more than 3-4 bolts to hold the neck on (folks, if you need more than 3-4 bolts, you have bigger fish to fry than the number of bolts holding it together!).

If the pocket is correct, the neck will make good solid contact at the bottom of the neck to the body, and at the end of the heel to the body. The sides, which are what you usually see folks measuring don't add squat, tonally.

That said, I have taken a neck, fit it into the neck pocket of our a body, and LIFTED THE BODY OFF A TABLE here in the shop. Note, I didn't mention bolting anything together.

With the way our basses are constructed, what appears to be a "gap" is often the "rollover" on the side of the neck pocket, and it can vary from one bass to the next (they ARE hand-shaped).At the bottom, it's nice and snug. Not overly tight (for the reasons JPJ mentioned), but good and snug.

()smoke() · #5 08-22-2008, 03:25 PM

thanks for the replies, fellas

i probably didn't word my question with enough detail to convey my motivation--i didn't intend to insinuate a problem at all, rather i'm intrigued with Roscoe's design and just curious about the details

jay--great post, and I share your opinion on the construction...you'll get a kick out of this: the only roscoe i've ever personally held is the 3005 that arrived at my house from your shop yesterday! (it's the most comfortable, effortless instrument i've ever played, but i'll save that for a dedicated thread with photos, ha)...seriously, thanks for the bass, man

Gard--the rollover is what i noticed when examining my bass; when sighting down the back of the neck to the body, i could see the fit of the pocket at the bottom and the hand-formed rollover at the face of the body--confirmed it by slipping a piece of typing paper along the edge and feeling it stop short of the bottom of the pocket

the bass has a tremendous resonance, which indicates to me a very stable neck joint

when i play an instrument that seems to get it right, i just out of habit like to mentally note what i can ascertain of the construction...

i'm just a guy designing buildings intrigued with designing basses

harrybosch · #6 08-22-2008, 04:16 PM

There's no difference tonally from a neck gap of .001" to one that is and inch wide. If the neck isn't making contact with the sides of the pocket it doesn't matter how much air is in between, it's still air. But I agree, the tightness of the neck pocket makes no difference tonally either way.

Gard · #7 08-22-2008, 04:17 PM

smoke, welcome to the family...I hope you didn't take my post as "defensive", but I have a tendency to hear that from people that are trying to find an issue when there isn't one.

...and don't let me get me started on "swiss cheese" neck bolt arrangements...

CrashClint · #8 08-22-2008, 05:52 PM

All three of my Roscoes are like Gard said, just a rollover, a piece of paper goes down about a 1/3 of the way.

My old Jazz had a super tight pocket and both the wood and finish developed a small crack. When I had Hanson and Crawford in Raleigh fix it, they opened the sides of the pocket to relieve the stress.

One other thing about that bass, I used to have to adjust the truss rod on that jazz bass about 4 times a year. On my LG3005, I bought it from another TBer, put Black Beauties on and took the little bit of relief out of the neck and it hasn't moved.

JPJ · #9 08-22-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

jay--great post, and I share your opinion on the construction...you'll get a kick out of this: the only roscoe i've ever personally held is the 3005 that arrived at my house from your shop yesterday! (it's the most comfortable, effortless instrument i've ever played, but i'll save that for a dedicated thread with photos, ha)...seriously, thanks for the bass, man

Ah-HA! NOW I know who you are!!!

I love forum screen names...I always end up having conversations with total strangers that I've actually already met and had multple phone conversations with!

I also want to make clear that I hope my post didn't come across as defensive. As Gard indicated, the "neck pocket" question is one that we get a lot, and is one that I routinely address with the other builders that I work with. As C.C. said, if the pocket is TOO tight, you could very end up with cracks in the finish or cracks in the wood.

As for your new Roscoe, I'm not even going to ack remotely surprised by your comments. I knew before that sucker went out the door that you were going to be very happy. Looking forward to the ceremony of "thread and photo" posting.