New Pickup/Preamp Combination

CrashClint · #1 01-31-2012, 08:17 AM

Ok, I haven't tried this before. My bass has the EMG 40 route so I am going to install a Bartolini preamp from a Roscoe (Thanks Greg) and match it to a set of passive Seymour Duncan Bassline pickups. All the parts will be here on Wednesday and I hope to have them installed by Thursday, but it may be the weekend.

The Basslines have a moderate output, so they are a little hotter than a Bartolini. I only have room for one 9vdc battery so I am thinking the gain will still be pretty good. If not, the bass my make a trip to Roscoe to have the battery pocket deepened so I can stack the batteries like they come from Roscoe now.

I had a set of Basslines in a Jazz knock off a few years ago and they sounded really good so I thought I would give them a try but add the Bart preamp for a little extra kick.

Hey Joe, have you tried this combination?

VroomVroom · #2 01-31-2012, 08:25 AM

Nice. I predict a smile on your face. IME/IMO, these two are like peas and carrots.

And, ok, I'm going to load up this next sentence with acronyms. FWIW, also IME/IMO, the voltage is unrelated to output. The Roscoe J lineup only allows for a single 9v battery, and in my two basses there is no difference in output compared to my 18v instruments. However, I do buy into the whole headroom argument, especially as that single 9v battery wears down. Accordingly, on those basses I replace the batteries more frequently.

Jeff Moote · #3 01-31-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

The Roscoe J lineup only allows for a single 9v battery, and in my two basses there is no difference in output compared to my 18v instruments.

This is news to me. Any reason for that? It could potentially be an issue I want to address on my upcoming bass if so...

I agree with you though that on the Bartolini preamp the sound is essentially the same between 9 and 18v with the only difference being headroom. The preamp has more than enough gain at either voltage and is set with the trimpot to a useful nominal level.

CrashClint · #4 01-31-2012, 09:23 AM

I installed a GlockenKlang preamp before and it was only 9 volts. Since it was in a Roscoe SKB I hooked two batteries in parallel which somewhat off-set the battery life issue.

As for my CSJ-plus, I haven't had to change the battery so I didn't realize it only had one.

VroomVroom · #5 01-31-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

This is news to me. Any reason for that? It could potentially be an issue I want to address on my upcoming bass if so...

Yep. The neck pickup. It intrudes on the space for the battery compartment.

I definitely don't want to suggest this is an issue or problem. No output concerns whatsoever. CDO folks like me will simply want to replace the battery more often.

Jeff Moote · #6 01-31-2012, 09:46 AM

That makes sense. Could that be a 6 string specific issue though? Aside from the hole through which the wires can pass it looks like there isn't much overlap and lots of room for 2 batteries here (and in other build shots of 4 and 5 strings):

VroomVroom · #7 01-31-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

Could that be a 6 string specific issue though?

Good question - could be.

Gard · #8 01-31-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

The Roscoe J lineup only allows for a single 9v battery...

This ONLY applies to the 6 string JJ setup, not the 4 or 5 string! (You're fine Jeff!

).

Just droppin' knowledge, please continue...

Jeff Moote · #9 01-31-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

Just droppin' knowledge, please continue...

Thanks for confirming. I knew you would know the answer.

Back on track with Clint's thread, I bet the SD/Bart setup is going to sound killer. I had a 2005 with the EMG 40s and while it was a nice sound, those pickups are so distinct that they take away from making the bass sound like a Roscoe to some extent.

JOME77 · #10 01-31-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashClint

Ok, I haven't tried this before. My bass has the EMG 40 route so I am going to install a Bartolini preamp from a Roscoe (Thanks Greg) and match it to a set of passive Seymour Duncan Bassline pickups. All the parts will be here on Wednesday and I hope to have them installed by Thursday, but it may be the weekend.

The Basslines have a moderate output, so they are a little hotter than a Bartolini. I only have room for one 9vdc battery so I am thinking the gain will still be pretty good. If not, the bass my make a trip to Roscoe to have the battery pocket deepened so I can stack the batteries like they come from Roscoe now.

I had a set of Basslines in a Jazz knock off a few years ago and they sounded really good so I thought I would give them a try but add the Bart preamp for a little extra kick.

Hey Joe, have you tried this combination?

Clint I Haven't tried it in a Roscoe but I've used the SD/Bart combo in a few Warmoths jazz basses and it sounded very nice. The Ducan pre sounds very good too (with the SD p/u's).

Honestly, I've tried to hear a difference with the 9VDC verses 18VDC systems but I honestly just don't hear it. Headroom is nice on paper but I really don't think it matters much in what the ears hear (in the application of an on board bass preamp). Just my opinion of course .....

VroomVroom · #11 01-31-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOME77

Honestly, I'e tried to hear a difference with the 9VDC verses 18VDC systems but I honestly just don't hear it. Headroom is nice on paper but I really don't think it matters much in what the ears hear (in the application of an on board bass preamp). Just my opinion of course .....

Totally agreed, Joe. With the only caveat coming when the battery (or batteries, even, in an 18v setup) is short on remaining life. I've experienced this on a gig - clipping and cutout when you lay into some notes, or even land a low C, for example - and it immediately sucks out the fun.

Shame on me, which is one of the reasons I'm so particular about swapping batteries. Keep the battery(ies) fresh, and you'll never experience issues, or notice a real-world difference between a 9v and 18v config.

CrashClint · #12 01-31-2012, 12:32 PM

On the talk of batteries, EMG has come out with an external power supply for their pickups in a stomp box. I think you have to buy their cable as well, so you will spend about $110.

ES-9 | Electric Guitar Pickups & Accessories - EMG Pickups

CrashClint · #13 01-31-2012, 12:40 PM

Awesome, the Bartolini Preamp from Greg has arrived and the pickups will be here tomorrow according to tracking.

Jeff Moote · #14 01-31-2012, 12:50 PM

Any chance of you doing a quick before and after sound clip? That is something I hope to do with the preamp swaps I have planned.

CrashClint · #15 01-31-2012, 06:02 PM

Here lies the issue and I am working on it with EMG. My LG came with EMGs and a passive tone circuit. I wanted a little more umph and control over the tone so I bought the Plug & Play BQC preamp. The package arrived in a sealed box. I pulled my passive tone controls out and drilled a 4th hole and fitted the new preamp. When I opened the package with all the connectors, two interconnect cables were missing. Since it was a Saturday I called Sam Ash and the tech had a couple spare cables. I went and picked them up and followed the "Preferred" wiring diagram provided with the preamp, plugged my bass in and nothing. So I looked at the schematic again to make sure I plugged it all in right and I did. I noticed there was an "Alternative" schematic so I tried it and still nothing. Well, I decided I was going to put my passive tone back in and send the preamp back (tried two different new tested batteries). I put my passive tone controls back in and nothing. So I am sending my pickups and the preamp to EMG for them to take a look to see what happened as I don't want to speculate. I will say Rick promptly called me Monday morning in response to my Email I sent. He seemed like your typical nice, overworked engineer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

Any chance of you doing a quick before and after sound clip? That is something I hope to do with the preamp swaps I have planned.

CrashClint · #16 02-02-2012, 10:16 AM

Installed the pickups and preamp last night, wow, these pickups have quite a bit of output. Comparing to my CSJ+. I have a Bart preamp in each. Trying to match volume output, the gain on my CSJ+ is at 100% and the gain on my LG with Basslines is about 25%.

If I wouldn't had installed the preamp myself, I would have thought someone sneaked an Aguilar preamp in the bass but with better highs. Granted, I was using my little Phil Jones Flight case amp which adds crazy mids. I backed the mids back to about to about a 1/4 as it was growling. Going through the Phil Jones was kind of a cross between a 70s P and J, really has a 70s funk tone about it. I will send it through the GB Shuttle 6 and Epifani UL410 this weekend which will give me a better idea otherwise it may be a good candidate for a Demeter (Oh Greg, lol).

Jeff, the Basslines are slightly larger than the EMGs and tightly fit the route and will take a lot of working back and forth to get them back out. I have a RMA number for EMG so I will be sending the preamp and pickups out tomorrow to have checked out.

CrashClint · #17 02-03-2012, 12:34 PM

Ok, hit this combo through a different amp and wow what a difference. These Basslines have a lot of punch and the harsh mids are gone. I still need to tweak the pickup height as the "G" string is sounding a little bright and clanky.

RocketMusic · #18 02-03-2012, 03:16 PM

Clint - do you detect any muddiness when you boost the mids now? My Lull has a set of Duncan something or others that are really hot, and I'm not thrilled with their level of clarity. I'm thinking a pickup swap is in order pretty soon...

VroomVroom · #19 02-05-2012, 11:09 PM

Tangent, and I know I already said this elsewhere, but....

Greg, my plea to you: hear that bass on a gig before you make any changes. I really do think you'll be pleasantly surprised. If not...you'll at least defer the expense for a bit. And if I'm wrong, I'll buy you one of those new Bud Light Platinum things.

RocketMusic · #20 02-06-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Tangent, and I know I already said this elsewhere, but....

Greg, my plea to you: hear that bass on a gig before you make any changes. I really do think you'll be pleasantly surprised. If not...you'll at least defer the expense for a bit. And if I'm wrong, I'll buy you one of those new Bud Light Platinum things.

But, Jerry... my next gig is 3-4 weeks away. I could EASILY change my pickups 3-4 times between now and then and STILL wind up back where I started. I'm JUST that crazy.

Yeah, I'll be a good boy and sit tight until then. I've always got King Koa for clarity, and I'm sure both basses will make an appearance that night.