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  #1  
Old 12-22-2008, 11:42 PM
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Nordstrand customization of the wenge LG-3005

Yesterday I visited Nordstrand Pickups again, this time to retrieve the two basses I left with them recently. The fretless wenge LG-3005 was one of them. It benefited from some interesting customization by Carey Nordstrand and team. I mentioned this pending work briefly in another thread. Well it's done — and it's done well!

Since I am low on sleep and time but high on enthusiasm, I am making this thread to track information about my LG-3005's electronics (as JOME77 used his "back in the Roscoe queue" thread to track the progress of his new custom Roscoe.)

When I have finished some better documentation, I will add it to this thread. For now, here is an overview:

Originally, my LG-3005 had Bartolini pickups and a Bartolini 3-band preamp with the knobs arranged as master volume, pan, active bass/treble stack, and active midrange pull-and-push.



Now it has custom Nordstrand Big Split pickups; and it retains the Bartolini 3-band preamp, but now also has a passive tone pot and can switch between active and passive modes, with the knobs arranged as volume/volume stack, passive tone pull-and-push (for passive or active mode), active bass/treble stack, and active midrange pull-and-push. Note the Sadowsky knobs, which I like a lot for their feel, marker lines and appearance.



I think I previously described the new layout as being very rational; but that was on paper. Now that I have used it on the bass for a bit, I am sure it's true, at least for me.

For starters, the bass/treble stack and midrange knobs' position and function are unchanged from stock (no drilling was done.) Then, the volume/volume stack echoes the 'highs above, lows below' arrangement of the bass/treble stack by having the bridge pickup volume on top (the final design of the layout was Carey's innovation, within which this detail was a special request of mine.) Lastly, the passive tone pot is pulled up to switch to passive mode. To me this connotes singling out the tone pot for exclusive use. Anyway it makes sense on the bass; it just feels right.

As on a Nordy bass, the new passive tone pot on my LG-3005 is always inline. I spent a lot of time with the bass today, and I came away amazed at the range of tonal variations it can now produce. It's pretty silly, folks. Passive mode with the tone pot was the main prize for me, and the reason I ran with Carey's suggestion that we try it. But the other new features are

1. using the active bands to equalize the passive band when it is rolled off,

2. velvet darkness (no, not the Allan Holdsworth album! more on this below)

3. using the switch between passive and active modes like switching between two channels on an outboard preamp.

"velvet darkness" is my favorite example of 1. And it's something I could not do with the stock setup:

When the tone pot is fully open, frequency response is flat. Likewise the active knobs; when they are centered, response is flat. Thus when the tone pot is fully open, any changes to the active knobs' positions are sonically equivalent to the stock setup.

In this case, rolling off the treble band completely is the basis for getting the darkest sound via the onboard electronics.

With the active bands flat and the tone pot closed completely we get the classic, "vintage" passive dark sound.

But now, by closing the tone pot and rolling off the active treble band completely, something new occurs: velvet darkness.

I think the order from least to most sonically dark is active treble rolled off, then passive tone pot closed, then both together. Each is distinct and useful.

About the pickups:

As Carey originally predicted when I contacted him about my LG-3005, he needed to make custom Big Splits for my bass so the poles would align with the strings correctly. But when they first fitted the realigned Big Splits, Carey didn't like the sound. He said "they sounded thin." So he specified a set of Big Splits with custom windings. Once those were fitted, he was happy with the sound.

I am impressed, both with Carey's commitment to excellence in each application, and with the sonic and cosmetic results. Though I am new to Roscoe Guitars and to Nordstrand Pickups, I think it's obvious why the two have the partnership they do.

(Here is Carey Nordstrand demonstrating his customizations before releasing my LG-3005 to me.)



After the first test when retrieving my customized LG-3005, and one sleep-deficient day with it, I am very happy with the results. The Big Splits sound great; perhaps more dynamic, tougher sounding, and more hi-fi than the Bartolini pickups. And the tone pot, in passive mode especially but also in use within active mode, gives me access to sonic aspects of my LG that were originally hidden. What a bass guitar!

More to come...

(You can click this photo to see a large version of it.)



Best,

Snaxster
  #2  
Old 12-23-2008, 04:24 AM
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WOW!

Very cool Snaxster! I need to re-read and analyze everything stated when I get home this afternoon but it sounds like you really refined that LG nicely. I really like the idea of the active/passive tone control. I've only had problems with a preamp once during a gig and it would have been real nice to have been able to change to passive and keep going. Fortunately it happened during the sound check.
The Nords look great on the bass too. I really did those pole pieces.

Keep the info flowing!

Man I love this forum!
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2008, 07:13 AM
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Sounds great!

I have some Big Splits in my Audere LG 3005 that I dig dig dig.

I will be installing a coil splitter on my SKB with Nordy Dual Coils in a couple weeks and I'll let you know how that goes.

Thanks for all the great info!

Last edited by CactusmanDoug : 12-23-2008 at 08:53 AM.
  #4  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:09 AM
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Just awesome! Great post...thank you. Now I just can't wait for the sound files. I know I whine about that, but for me there's just this huge brick wall..."Roscoe" = Bartolini + Bartolini. The only others I've heard/played are an SKB3005 fretless with Barts + Aggie, and an SKB3005 with Nordstrand + Bartolini. Neither did it for me sonically, but I hear/read so much about others who are happy with different combinations that I'm hungry to learn more.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent there. I'm really happy to hear that you're getting this bass dialed-in.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:22 AM
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Hello, Doug. My pleasure to post.

Good news about your Big Splits with Audere setup. I'm not surprised to hear how happy you are with it.

I am very interested in your Nordstrand Dual Coils project. Good luck! When you're done, please do post a description with photos (and sound samples, if possible.) Thanks!

Best,

Snaxster
  #6  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:49 AM
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Hi, VroomVroom. Glad you liked it! I'm always happy to share (I'm still trying to give something back to the community, after all.)

I plan to have sound samples in my completed documentation (any day now...) At the least those should include: the spectrum of dark tone settings I described, the tone pot set at around the halfway point, and a couple examples of using the passive/active switch like an outboard preamp channel switcher.

As for sonic signatures (that of Roscoe basses overall, and of Roscoes with various electronics components), I acknowledge that

1. though my experience with bass guitars is considerable, my experience with Roscoe instruments is slight so far, so I can't yet have a credible opinion of what "the Roscoe sound" is,

2. whereas some general characterization of a given instrument maker's work could be made (if they produce in a fairly consistent way, as Roscoe Guitars does), their use of different tone woods, nut materials, and electronics components as factory options, all in numerous combinations means that apples-to-apples comparisons across a large sample of instruments are elusive,

3. there is no accounting for taste.

I think 3 trumps all other factors. Such assertions from credible practitioners as "If it sounds good, it is good" (attributed to Joe Meek) and Jaco Pastorius's citation of his hands as the source of his signature bass guitar voice, suggest to me that "It isn't the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog" is true. They also corroborate historical record and my own experience. Ornette Coleman entered the jazz pantheon playing a plastic horn.

So there you go — I appreciate your tangent.

And thanks for your good wishes. This LG is almost there; some setup work and it should be done. Then all I have to do is learn to play it well!

Best,

Snaxster
  #7  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:50 AM
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Hi, VroomVroom. My reply to your post got orphaned under my OP. Please see it there.

Thanks,

Snaxster
  #8  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaxster View Post
Hi, VroomVroom. My reply to your post got orphaned under my OP. Please see it there.

Thanks,

Snaxster
Administrator, please note these two examples of replies being orphaned; that is, they are initiated in the context of a reply to a given post some level(s) beneath the OP, but on submission they are incorrectly placed directly under the OP.

Thanks,

Snaxster
  #9  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:54 AM
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Hi, VroomVroom. I'm having trouble replying to your post. Trying once more!

My reply to your post got orphaned under my OP. Please see it there.

Thanks,

Snaxster
  #10  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaxster View Post
Administrator, please note these two examples of replies being orphaned; that is, they are initiated in the context of a reply to a given post some level(s) beneath the OP, but on submission they are incorrectly placed directly under the OP.

Thanks,

Snaxster
I think I can define the bug:

When using Quick Reply in the root view of a thread, submission of that reply (whether directly or after using Go Advanced) correctly places the reply post a level below the post the user referenced.

But when using Quick Reply in some other views of a thread (that is, starting from any post below the original post), submission of that reply (whether directly or after using Go Advanced, possibly) sometimes incorrectly places the reply post directly below the original post, regardless of which post the user referenced.

Note that I am using Hybrid View for displaying threads, and that I am seeing this bug in Firefox running on Mac OS X 10.5.x.

Thanks,

Snaxster
  #11  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:12 AM
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaxster View Post

I am very interested in your Nordstrand Dual Coils project. Good luck! When you're done, please do post a description with photos (and sound samples, if possible.) Thanks!
Yah Mon,

Actually Funkinthetrunk did this with his Audere/Nordy Dual Coil SKB and said it was a snap! Simply installed a push/pull volume pot with a little solder!

I've pm'ed him and one of us will pubicly post soon.

All the very best,

Doug
  #12  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:29 AM
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Awesome, Doug. Thank you!

Oh, and Happy Holidays.

Snaxster
  #13  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 View Post
WOW!

Very cool Snaxster! I need to re-read and analyze everything stated when I get home this afternoon but it sounds like you really refined that LG nicely. I really like the idea of the active/passive tone control. I've only had problems with a preamp once during a gig and it would have been real nice to have been able to change to passive and keep going. Fortunately it happened during the sound check.
The Nords look great on the bass too. I really did those pole pieces.

Keep the info flowing!

Man I love this forum!
Thanks, Joe. I know you're busy with other bass matters these days.

I hadn't considered the gig scenario you mentioned. Frankly, I don't yet know if my setup would let audio through the jack in passive mode if either the preamp failed or the batteries died. (I can test the batteries scenario easily enough, but I won't kill my preamp just to test the theory. ) This is a question I should ask of Nordstrand.

And yes, this forum is great. As I said in my first post here, I have the forum to thank in large part for my discovery of Roscoe basses.

Happy Holidays!

Snaxster
  #14  
Old 12-23-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaxster View Post
Thanks, Joe. I know you're busy with other bass matters these days.

I hadn't considered the gig scenario you mentioned. Frankly, I don't yet know if my setup would let audio through the jack in passive mode if either the preamp failed or the batteries died. (I can test the batteries scenario easily enough, but I won't kill my preamp just to test the theory. ) This is a question I should ask of Nordstrand.

And yes, this forum is great. As I said in my first post here, I have the forum to thank in large part for my discovery of Roscoe basses.

Happy Holidays!

Snaxster
Hello Snaxster,
was really nice to meet you at the shop. You have a very excellent bass there.
To answer you question, the P/P switch is a true bypass. It remove the preamp (and the batteries) and send the signal, from the two volumes and tone directly to the jack.

Enjoy it

Mo'
  #15  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:22 PM
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Maurilio! Hello! It was very good to meet you, too. I'm sorry my second visit to the shop was on a Sunday, so I missed you then. Next time.

Thank you for all your help with my basses. The J Bass sounds great with the new pickups and setup. And the LG-3005 is now even more of an already excellent thing. I'm glad you like this bass.

And thanks for clarifying the function of the push/pull tone pot. This addresses Joe's fallback case, wherein if the preamp failed in a gig situation you would still be able to play the bass. A useful bonus feature.

To you and your family, Happy Holidays.

Snaxster
  #16  
Old 12-23-2008, 09:50 PM
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Thank you.

The J has definitely a better eveness and clarity with the new pups, indeed.

Happy Holidays to you, too.

See you next year

M
  #17  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurilio View Post
To answer you question, the P/P switch is a true bypass. It remove the preamp (and the batteries) and send the signal, from the two volumes and tone directly to the jack.

What it is, Mo?

I just had an idea regarding the addition of a p/p bypass in my SKB as well.

How would you suggest one might incorporate that in conjunction with the proposed Coil Splitter I'm going to install?

I have the Dual Coil Nordys w/Audere Roscoe pre at present.

Thanks again, man.

Doug
  #18  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusmanDoug View Post
What it is, Mo?

I just had an idea regarding the addition of a p/p bypass in my SKB as well.

How would you suggest one might incorporate that in conjunction with the proposed Coil Splitter I'm going to install?

I have the Dual Coil Nordys w/Audere Roscoe pre at present.

Thanks again, man.

Doug
Hey there,
unfortunately, with the Audere there's little or nothing that can be done without major mods.
The push/pull mod is a simple switch to direct the signal through the pre or directly to the jack.

This is how it works.

M
  #19  
Old 12-23-2008, 11:20 PM
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Dude awesome thread! You've done a great job with that new LG! Very cool!
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2008, 11:42 PM
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Many thanks, Cliff! I have Roscoe and Nordstrand to thank for the real work, of course. I only take credit for my appreciation of the instrument.

Best,

Snaxster
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