Pondering a preamp change for my SKB3006...thoughts?

[Diego]

Hello fellow roscoeheads...

I been pondering about the possibility of changing the premap on my SKB3006. I understand the preamp topic has been covered in previous threads which contain a wealth of info I have perused excitedly. For this reason I apologize for any redundancies herein encountered. However, while useful, these threads have not answered my question: How to get a "crystalline" tone, well focused WHILE keeping the acoustic "warmth" and "airiness" of the woods. My current SKB3006:

Spalted/flame maple top (thick)
Spanish cedar body
Thin profile maple/purpleheart neck
Bolivian RW FB
Bart pre/Bart-Roscoe PUPs

After receiving my Century Sig VI (figured walnut on ash, wenge wedge neck, ebony board, Nordies and Audere), I find the tone of the SKB a bit too dark. Is a good P-bass tone with some acoustic character to it, but alas, it is definitely DARK. I want to bring some sparkle to it, especially in the mid/high-mid section (chordal work). So I need a more "crystalline" voice. However, I do not want to loose the "acoustic airiness" the bass has. Thoughts?

I am thinking Aggie pre/Roscoe-Bart PUPs or Bart pre/Bart CB PUPs may work...any other ideas? (maybe I am just unable to dial the right EQ settings for my current setup). Lastly, I'll also contact our grandiose source of encyclopedic Roscoe knowledge...Gard for advice. Many thanks in advance and...

HAPPY 2009!

Diego

ps. NorCal TBers...any good trustworthy tech in the SF bay area to do the preamp/PU swap if I decide to go with it?

[Gard]

Diego -

Calling me grandiose is only correct when referring to my girth, not my knowledge!!!



...that said, I would suggest starting with the preamp, and would actually recommend the Audere over the Aguilar for your application. I really like the Aguilar, but it is AGGRESSIVE sounding, very strong in the midrange, and "growly" to my ears, as opposed to "open", which it sounds like you are looking for.

[VroomVroom]

Excellent post, and I'm always up for more information on this topic. The only Bart+Aggie SKB I've heard/played was on a fretless, so I'm still hungry for more feedback on this combo, as well as any others that might add bark/cut/etc. while retaining what is to me the Roscoe sound.

Norcal. A buddy of mine recently did a complete electronics swap on his bass, and had the work done by a small shop in San Leandro. I've asked him for contact info and will happily post it here once I get it. Beyond that, I've used two others. The first - probably as expected - is Gary Brawer in the city. The two challenges there are (a) actually getting a hold of Gary...my last three attempts have failed, and (b) ensuring that he does the work...assuming, like me, that if you're paying his rates you'd rather he do the work instead of one of his apprentices. He's a busy guy, but his reputation is certainly well-earned. The other is Greg Hannig in Redwood City. I've never had an issue with Greg's work, although he's regarded as more of a luthier/setup expert than an electronics guru. (If you need frets dressed, he's a good guy to call.)

Good luck with everything...

[Active Reasoner]

Hey Diego,

I have a half Burl Maple/ half Spanish Cedar, and an older thin Burl Maple top/ Swamp Ash, with a thick body. Both have Maple neck & board, with all Bart electronics.

I know exactly the sounds you're talking about, but I wouldn't change a thing about mine. I have two fantastic, but completely different sounds. The acoustic tone of the Spanish Cedar is perfect for mellow music, and the Swamp Ash bite is better for an electric tone.

Just my 2 cents,

Active

[CliffD]

Hey Diego,

Before ordering my CSVI I was able to play a bart/bart skb and then one that was loaded with the audere 4 band. I went with the audere on my Roscoe because I thought it sounded more transparent and was more versatile. Both of the basses I played had cedar bodies, and maple tops.

Food for thought.

[CactusmanDoug]

Hi Diego-

Another option to consider might be the installation of that dandy Glockenklang pre. I don't know if TPB has anymore of the 4-knob configured units in stock that CrashClint was instrumental in the development of but you could give 'em a call.

I think it's a very open pre with the push/pull active/passive option you might very well dig. Also maybe find some CB barts in the classifieds here on TB that would be cheaper than buying new pups from Gard (Keith told me Gard is paid in commission on the sales of those pickups in coupons to the local All-U-Can-Eat Buffet so this might also help Gard keep an eye on his girlish figure)

Although it's taken some time and money, I've really enjoyed checking out the various tones available through different electronic combinations.

[CliffD]

Originally Posted by CactusmanDoug

Hi Diego-

Another option to consider might be the installation of that dandy Glockenklang pre. I don't know if TPB has anymore of the 4-knob configured units in stock that CrashClint was instrumental in the development of but you could give 'em a call.

I think it's a very open pre with the push/pull active/passive option you might very well dig. Also maybe find some CB barts in the classifieds here on TB that would be cheaper than buying new pups from Gard (Keith told me Gard is paid in commission on the sales of those pickups in coupons to the local All-U-Can-Eat Buffet so this might also help Gard keep an eye on his girlish figure)

Although it's taken some time and money, I've really enjoyed checking out the various tones available through different electronic combinations.

Yup, I've got the 5 knob glock pre in a killer Sage LH4 bass. I LOVE the pre in that bass, the passive mode is awesome, the treble knob acts as a passive tone control which as a jazz bass lover, I love. That and the bass control is really tight, not overly boomy, I think it's around 50hz.

[Diego]

Thanks everyone for the comprehensive replies! I appreciate it... with respect to the Audere pre...would you guys think that this would "mimic" too much the sound of the Century Sig? or would the "wooliness" of the Roscoe PUPs and the wood combo will help "tame" the hi-fi sound that I can get out of the Century (to my ears it sounds very hi-fi, kind of MTD-esque/Fbass-esque but with the authoritative Roscoe mids...)?

[Gard]

Diego -

The Audere/Bart combo won't sound like the Audere/Nord combo, even if the woods are the same. The Bart pickups are a bit darker and fatter sounding, with a bit of natural compression, while the Nords are more open and a bit brighter.

Add that to the difference in woods, and I think you're going to be right in the ballpark of where you want to be with the Audere/Bart setup.

[JOME77]

My votes for the Audere pre with the Bart's. I've had a few Spanish cedar Roscoe's with the Bart and Aggie 3-band pre's and while the Aggie opened the sound up a bit more (not as compressed in the highs) it didn't sound a great deal different than the Bart 3-Band.
The Audere sounds great with the Nord's and the Bart CB's but I actually prefer it with the Bart's.
If you go with the Audere and don't totally dig it, the worst case would be a change to the Bart CB's down the road.......

[Active Reasoner]

There are so many threads on this forum regarding players changing their Roscoe components, this looks like a good place to write something I've been thinking for a while.

I write this not as a criticism of those who wish to experiment with different pre-amps and pickups in their Roscoes; to each their own.

But to let all the prospective Roscoe customers who might be wondering-

"Pay thousands of bucks for a custom bass, and then have to change something to get the sound you want?"

I'm an older player, and except for my first bass, I have always owned what I felt was the best instrument at the time. In fact I have a nice collection of world class instruments. I have also had the opportunity to play many fantastic basses over the years.

None of the instruments I have ever played comes close to my Roscoe's in being able to produce the sound I hear in my head. I didn't realize what I was missing until I played my first Roscoe.

Believe me, future Roscoe owners, Roscoe knows what they're doing. Why would they continue to put Bartolini systems in their instruments as first choice, for all these years, if they thought there was something better?

There, I said it. Don't worry, I won't bring up this rant again.
Please go back to your quest for your perfect sound, I've found mine.

A few more cents,

Active

[CactusmanDoug]

Again Diego,

I've got a Spanish Cedar body on an LG with the Audere/ Nordy Big Splits that is a real treat tonally. Needless to say, it's different from my Dual Coil Nordys on my SKB but it really produces a muscular dominance.

I lent my bass to a young player that was visiting for some special meetings we were having and fully boosted the high and low mids for one set on the Audere/Big Splits Lg so I could hear exactly what that was like while I sat in the audience and whoaaa!!!, my bass cut through the mix like Sherman through Georgia (sorry Joe).

There are so many sonic options to bring out and shape the tone of that wonderful Roscoe...break out the checkbook and have a ball!

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by Active Reasoner

There are so many threads on this forum regarding players changing their Roscoe components, this looks like a good place to write something I've been thinking for a while.

I write this not as a criticism of those who wish to experiment with different pre-amps and pickups in their Roscoes; to each their own.

But to let all the prospective Roscoe customers who might be wondering-

"Pay thousands of bucks for a custom bass, and then have to change something to get the sound you want?"

I'm an older player, and except for my first bass, I have always owned what I felt was the best instrument at the time. In fact I have a nice collection of world class instruments. I have also had the opportunity to play many fantastic basses over the years.

None of the instruments I have ever played comes close to my Roscoe's in being able to produce the sound I hear in my head. I didn't realize what I was missing until I played my first Roscoe.

Believe me, future Roscoe owners, Roscoe knows what they're doing. Why would they continue to put Bartolini systems in their instruments as first choice, for all these years, if they thought there was something better?

There, I said it. Don't worry, I won't bring up this rant again.
Please go back to your quest for your perfect sound, I've found mine.

A few more cents,

Active

In the case of say a Smith or Alembic I would agree. Those basses have very unique proprietary preamp's that significantly contribute to the unique sound of their instrument.
Roscoe , on the other hand, offers several different preamp's for their basses (as well as several various p/u's) that fine tune their instruments for specific players preferences. I found that regardless of which preamp I have installed in my Roscoe, it still sounds like a Roscoe. Just a slightly different flavor.

That's one thing that I love about Roscoe, they continually make an effort to better their product. Whether it's offering different preamps, pickups, bridges or improving their construction methods/process, they never get complacent!

Hey, but if you really dig the way your Roscoe sounds, you don't have to change anything! That's cool too!

[chadds]

Each of my Roscoes sounds like a Roscoe. I love the fine tuning. My 2nd has a beautiful Madrone top on Spanish Cedar. Combined with an Ebony Bd it sounded way dark. The AG OPB-3 opened it up. The next step, DR Sunbeams gave this lyrical musical mid thing. The last were the CBs. Really opened up.

You don't know what your bass is going to sound like. The combination of woods though generally within a ball park can yield different results bass to bass. They really are different beasts or Little Girls. or SkeeBobbs. running a Century.

[CrashClint]

I have tried a bunch of pickup and preamp combos in Roscoe basses. Though it is not offered anymore by Roscoe, the Demeter preamp is my favorite. On my SKB3005, I have the Nord DCs and the Demeter preamp. This bass sounds like you combined a Roscoe with an MTD. A good solid bottom, sweet highs, but it does lack a little in the Mid. Playing Gospel music, you can not have a better bass. Maple top, Ash body, Wenge/Wedge neck, Wenge fingerboard and Diamondwood nut.

My SKB3005 Fretless has Bart pre/Bart Classics, which gives this bass a sweet open sound. It has a Maple top, Ash body, Maple/Purpleheart neck and Diamondwood fingerboard. I am seriously thinking of taking out the Bart Classics and putting Roscoe/Barts in this bass to get a darker compressed sound and to add more mwwahh factor. Am also considering trying out some tape wound strings.

I also play in a rock band so as soon as all my doctor bills are paid from my accident I will go with the more traditional Roscoe sound. I met up with a Roscoehead Arnold Perry who is not on TB, (but he owns probably 9 Roscoe basses and has a fretless that is being finished this week at Roscoe) the other day at Sam Ash. He has a Century Sig V with a Solid Redwood body, Maple/Purpleheart neck, Spalted Purpleheart fingerboard, Bart pre with Roscoe Barts with a coil tap switch. This bass was stunning and played like a dream and just oozed that Roscoe vibe. When you would flip that coil tap it really gave it a cool jazz tone like from the 70s Motown records.

I have tried the following preamps in Roscoe basses, Aguilar, Audere, Bartolini, Demeter and Glockenklang. Out of all of these, I did not care for the Aguilar at all, it was way to aggressive in the mids. I think if the Bart is too dark for you but you want to stay close to the bart tone but a little more open, go with the Audere/Bart Classic. If you want a more modern sounding tone close to the Demeter which is no longer available, go with the Glock if they are even still available. I heard that Glock USA may be going out of business and I am not sure if TPB can get them directly from Germany.

I do have a LG2005 which has a truss rod issue so it is not a bass I would would really play much, but it has EMG pickups in it and has a pretty cool tone. It is somewhere in between the The Bart Pre and Demeter Pre type of tone. This bass has a Quilt maple top, Ash body, Spalted Brazilian Rosewood fingerboard. Maple neck with 2 thin Purpleheart Pin Stripes.

Since this bass has a glued-in truss rod, I am thinking of taking it to Hanson's in Raleigh and have them route the back of the neck, remove the old truss rod and install a new one. They can put a Purpleheart Skunk Stripe down the back of the neck like the Fenders have.

[VroomVroom]

Active Reasoner, I enjoyed your post...and not because I'm biased toward the sound of Bartolini electronics in Roscoe instruments. I also like the idea of options and customization, and would love to play/hear some more Roscoe basses that have different electronics. Ultimately, the lesson for me is that I do have to play an instrument before deciding whether or not it works for me. And it's important to mention that this applies to instruments with the same electronics and/or woods just as it does to those with different pre-amps, pickups, and woods. I admire folks who are willing to take the plunge and custom order an instrument, but I don't think I could ever do it.

Roscoe-specific cases in point. My local store has an SKB3006 that is fairly similar to mine in woods and identical in electronics. It sounds MUCH different than mine. It's the right sound for someone...just not me. Likewise, they've had in stock for quite a long time now a GORGEOUS SKB3005. It's got a cocobolo top that will bring tears to your eyes, with a fingerboard to match. It also has Nordstrand pickups. I've played this thing probably two dozen times. To look at it is a beautiful thing. To play it unplugged...ditto. It's hard to find a sweeter playing five-string than an SKB, in my opinion. But amplified - through just about any rig...it doesn't do a thing for me.

Anyway, long way of making my point - sorry about that. I'm open to the idea of customization, especially in the area of electronics, where you can always punt and go back if the result is horrible, but I always tend to "come home" to the Bartolini sound in Roscoe instruments. Sorry for the tangent, and definitely good luck to the OP as he explores options.

[Diego]

Thanks everyone for the comprehensive reviews and insightful comments. I also respectfully disagree with ActiveReasoner. I love the idea of customization as it lets you experiment. Another thing is that having heard the Nord/Audere combo in my Century, my whole perception of the possibilities for the SKB3006 changed dramatically, and I do believe now that tapping into the "electronics department" has the potential to massively expand my sonic palette.

[VroomVroom]

Just following up on an earlier post - Diego, I sent you a PM with the name & phone number of that tech in San Leandro. I saw/heard the fruits of some of his work last night. The bassist for Times 4 just bought an MTD Kingston and had the pickups & pre-amp swapped. He's a very happy customer.

[Gard]

Jerry, thanks for doing that, this is the kind of stuff that I really am happy to be here and a part of - guys helping each other out!

Oh, and Active Reasoner, I totally understand where you're coming from, and there are those here in the shop that have a somewhat similar outlook, but I'm more of the line of reasoning that Jerry (Vroom) has - there is a "Roscoe Sound" in the basses, and you can change that somewhat, but never remove it, and tailor a tone to your taste a bit, but it's still that SOUND. It's like a beautiful woman, does it change her beauty if her brown eyes are green or blue? Not really, she's still BEAUTIFUL, just in a subtly different way.

[CactusmanDoug]

Originally Posted by Gard

It's like a beautiful woman, does it change her beauty if her brown eyes are green or blue? Not really, she's still BEAUTIFUL, just in a subtly different way.

yeah...yeah like...does pizza quit being pizza because someone puts pineapple on it? No man, it's still the same pizza but now in a pineapple sort of way.

Gard...our quintessential philosopher