Roscoe Basses 5 vs 6 strings.

[LilRay]

OK Roscoeheads, In the immortal debate of 5 vs 6 which do you own/use and why? (I know the answer to some of this but if you wouldn't mind explaining why, I think it may be helpful to not only me but others considering a Roscoe)



Few other questions Choosing 5 what do you lose vs 6? And reverse that what do you gain choosing 6 vs 5?

Are 6ers just for chording or do any of you use the 6ers like most use four strings (Ie; economy of motion)?

If you were in my position having never touched anything but four strings, and adding additional string/s will have a learning curve, in your hind sight which would you choose?

I'm strictly an ear player, and I'd like to try adding strings to see what else I might be able to hear.

I'd like to limit this to Roscoe to get a more specific response than the entirety of TB (Ie; models,combos etc).

God Bless, Ray

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by LilRay

If you were in my position having never touched anything but four strings, and adding additional string/s will have a learning curve, in your hind sight which would you choose?

I was in that position until I bought a 6-string about a year ago. Didn't play it very much, sold it on monday (with a 50€ profit ). (I might add that I didn't played it much because it wasn't fretless.)


I play for 10 years now. Always got the job done on 4-stringers. Never had the urge to try out a 5-string. I mostly tune DADG though.
Come to thing of it, I only had one 5-string in my hands once, for about 10 minutes.
It was my bass teacher's.
I didn't felt the need for that low B-string. Always was happy and comfortable with a 4-string, and I never felt limited.


I'd sooner go to a 6-string than to a 5-string, for the extended upper range. (Yeah, I dabble in the high register, sue me.)
But when I think about it, and from experience, the extra range is just 5 semitones lower and 5 semitones higher. Not that much when you look at it musicly IMO.


Okay, this is just my experience my friend.

You might feel the need for a low B-string perhaps.

Many say Roscoes have one of the nicest low B's. I don't know what that hype means or how it can be that it's so much better than on any other 35" quality brand 5-string.

I only have a Roscoe 4-string so what do I know.
(FWIW, it's amazing in drop D... might also be my 110 HiBeam string.)


It's all up to you: do you have the urge for a 5er or 6er?




And are you planning on a Roscoe, and want to make sure you will not regret your number of strings choice?

[Darkstrike]

I was always a four string player, but I do like low tunings, always did, big into metal, who'd a thunk it..

But anyway, I had tried 5ers, even own a cheap Squier one, but no matter what ones I played, clunky slow necks, B strings that needed high action(compared to what I'd have a four string set at anyway), and the low notes were pretty indesctinct, and muddy/messy. I had practically given up on playing anything but 4's to be honest.

But I decided to take one last stab at a fiver, after buying a nice Fender, I was really set for fours, though a five would make a good backup if I could find one I like. So I went into research mode, initial idea was a EBMM Bongo, but kept on looking, I was suggested to look at Roscoe, so I checked gregs site, and tehy were beyond my means, at the time, eventually I had decided on a Pedulla Rapture, used, even though I had a feeling the strings, and neck would be too wide, and by some twist of fate, happend upon Data's FS thread, I had already know about the bass, due to a mutural friend's gas, and after checking with him(that he wasn't after it), took my shot.

After an hour I realised what a five string could be.
Neck was just perfect, skinny front to back, slim nut, and medium wide at the bridge, not too wide to make the G a hard reach when planting, but enough room for slap/fat fingers!
Not to mention low action and a crushing B.

I've said it before, but I'd have given up on five strings, only for this bass, never knew they could play as well as a four string.

I'd like to try a Roscoe 6er, just to see if I'd get a similar reaction. I like my 6er, but it's far from perfect, and sees little use.

Is there any particular reason you're looking at extended range, or just idle curiosity?

Originally Posted by René_Julien

Many say Roscoes have one of the nicest low B's. I don't know what that hype means or how it can be that it's so much better than on any other 35" quality brand 5-string.

There's a few reasons, low action, I can get my B as low as an E string on my other basses, not found another fiver like this, great tension too, no flop at all, and I can pluck and slam it as hard as I do any string. First B I've found to be slappable as well.

Then there's tone, big heavy, and with a nice dose of clarity, I can bounce and roll on the B, C, and C# notes, with each one having full definition. Not to mention its playable right up the board, no mean feat.


EDIT: Sorry guys, didn't realise I had wrote half a book....

[Ziltoid]

First off, I'm no roscoe player but last spring I did the 4 to 6 jump simply because i felt caged in with a 4 string and wanted to explore new areas. Now, I couldn't live without the C string but my B sees a little use.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

I'd sooner go to a 6-string than to a 5-string, for the extended upper range. (Yeah, I dabble in the high register, sue me.)
But when I think about it, and from experience, the extra range is just 5 semitones lower and 5 semitones higher. Not that much when you look at it musicly IMO.

Well, if you're not much interested in a B, why not try a 5 tuned E-A-D-G-C, for your chording, this is how my other fivers are tuned now. Its a fun tuning too.

As for the range, I find its as much about tonalaty, than it is about extra notes, the same thing is gonna sound different low down on a C than it is up high on a D string.

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

Okay, this is just my experience my friend.

I appreciate you sharing Stefan.

You might feel the need for a low B-string perhaps.

Many say Roscoes have one of the nicest low B's. I don't know what that hype means or how it can be that it's so much better than on any other 35" quality brand 5-string.

I only have a Roscoe 4-string so what do I know.
(FWIW, it's amazing in drop D... might also be my 110 HiBeam string.)

That's why I'm asking. I want to be edjucated.

It's all up to you: do you have the urge for a 5er or 6er?

I don't know Stefan, I'd like the most I can get but I don't want to choose "too much" if that's something that I wouldn't use.

I'd hate to get either a 5 or a 6 and play it like a 4, ya know?

And are you planning on a Roscoe, and want to make sure you will not regret your number of strings choice?

I'd like for it to be a Roscoe for the simple fact that I know they pride themselves of quality. In other words it won't be like buying a cheap bass and saying "boy 5/6 string basses are turds, I'm sticking with 4" If I'm going to try a 5/6 string bass, I'd want the bass to be of enough quality that the point of emphasis will be shifted to my ability to make full use of it vs struggling with a poor quality instrument.

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

But anyway, I had tried 5ers, even own a cheap Squier one, but no matter what ones I played, clunky slow necks, B strings that needed high action(compared to what I'd have a four string set at anyway), and the low notes were pretty indesctinct, and muddy/messy. I had practically given up on playing anything but 4's to be honest.

Note to self no Squiers

.... happend upon Data's FS thread, I had already know about the bass, due to a mutural friend's gas, and after checking with him(that he wasn't after it), took my shot.

After an hour I realised what a five string could be.
Neck was just perfect, skinny front to back, slim nut, and medium wide at the bridge, not too wide to make the G a hard reach when planting, but enough room for slap/fat fingers!
Not to mention low action and a crushing B.

I've said it before, but I'd have given up on five strings, only for this bass, never knew they could play as well as a four string.

I'd like to try a Roscoe 6er, just to see if I'd get a similar reaction. I like my 6er, but it's far from perfect, and sees little use.

Bill, If I'm able to obtain a Roscoe, I will either peruse the Classifieds for used or get a Century Standard. Depending on how quickly I can save

Is there any particular reason you're looking at extended range, or just idle curiosity?

Not necessarily idle curiosity nor neccessity, but being a pure ear player, more or less to try and expand my ability. And economy of motion.

EDIT: Sorry guys, didn't realise I had wrote half a book....

I appreciate the book Bill, Thanks for taking the time to write it.


Thanks Guys

God Bless, Ray

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by LilRay

Note to self no Squiers

Good choice sir, good choice, now I do love Squier fours, but of course, the Roscoe is another leauge.

Originally Posted by LilRay

Bill, If I'm able to obtain a Roscoe, I will either peruse the Classifieds for used or get a Century Standard. Depending on how quickly I can save

Either would be a fantastic choice.

Originally Posted by LilRay

Not necessarily idle curiosity nor neccessity, but being a pure ear player, more or less to try and expand my ability. And economy of motion.

Its not something I think about too much, but the ecomomy of motion is quite handy, playing up around the 5th-10th position, and being able to easily grab a low F, or G, for example, does come in very helpful.

Originally Posted by LilRay

I appreciate the book Bill, Thanks for taking the time to write it.

No problem!

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by LilRay

I don't know Stefan, I'd like the most I can get but I don't want to choose "too much" if that's something that I wouldn't use.

I'd hate to get either a 5 or a 6 and play it like a 4, ya know?

Yup, I totally know. I am/was in the same boat.

I'm very OCD.
Prove: I took out the jazz pickup from my Tony Franklin because I don't need it. And it bothered me more having it there than the empty cavity is bothering me know.

Same thing with extra strings on a bass.
I'm glad I didn't ordered a 6-string Roscoe (that crossed my mind)... because I would have played it like a 4-string. (Same thing was going on with my Yamaha 6-string.)

I'm in a very good place regarding my bass choices. (Well, a place I assume only I would thrive.)

And talk about OCD...
I'm so glad with my 2 high-end fretless 4-strings that I sold every other bass I owned. (most at giveaway prices locally)

I love my collection... no useless (to me) basses in it.




Much respect to 5 and 6-string players, as long as you play a bass you are happy with and inspires you.

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

Yup, I totally know. I am/was in the same boat.

I'm very OCD.
Prove: I took out the jazz pickup from my Tony Franklin because I don't need it. And it bothered me more having it there than the empty cavity is bothering me know.

Same thing with extra strings on a bass.
I'm glad I didn't ordered a 6-string Roscoe (that crossed my mind)... because I would have played it like a 4-string. (Same thing was going on with my Yamaha 6-string.)

I'm in a very good place regarding my bass choices. (Well, a place I assume only I would thrive.)

And talk about OCD...
I'm so glad with my 2 high-end fretless 4-strings that I sold every other bass I owned. (most at giveaway prices locally)

I love my collection... no useless (to me) basses in it.




Much respect to 5 and 6-string players, as long as you play a bass you are happy with and inspires you.

I've got three basses now and they are all gifts. I cherish the manner in which they were obtained(By My Pop)
And truth is If I get a 5/6 string bass It will more than likely be a gift as well, so I'd cherish and keep whichever I got, rather I made full use of it or not. I'm not able to save much on my own. That's why I ask the folks that use them their opinions rather than foolishly assuming I can make the jump.

Thanks Stefan,

God Bless, Ray

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by LilRay

I've got three basses now and they are all gifts. I cherish the manner in which they were obtained(By My Pop)
And truth is If I get a 5/6 string bass It will more than likely be a gift as well, so I'd cherish and keep whichever I got, rather I made full use of it or not. I'm not able to save much on my own. That's why I ask the folks that use them their opinions rather than foolishly assuming I can make the jump.

Thanks Stefan,

God Bless, Ray

Good thing you are so sober about bass purchasing.
Don't let GAS get the best of you.
My gear always was the bare essentials... until june 2008.

That's my TalkBass join date.

Hanging around in the Basses forum, seeing lots of pretty stuff, inquiring about basses just for the heck of it. Quickly my collection began to grow. Same goes for amps and effects.
Thing I wanted... I thought I wanted... turns out lots of it I don't need.


My Tony Franklin purchase was the nicest and the most positive.
Never actually thought of that bass until I saw one hanging in the store. I saw a ridiculous price tag on it.
There weren't any other fretless basses in the store, I told the salesman I was an exclusively fretless player.
Well, visiting a music store without playing a bass would have been silly.

Salesman handed it to me and I started playing... and playing... felt so nice, sounded so nice.
Later I bought it.

I did not chose the Tony Franklin, that bass chose me.
That's what I love about that bass.


The Roscoe off course is the opposite. A custom bass I could spec out myself. Where else was I gonna turn wanting a solid maple fretless bass?
Roscoe made an awesome bass taking my demands.

Also an awesome bass.
I got 2 fretless 4-strings, but they are really completely different animals. In another league, none is worse than the other.

I spend my first 4 years playing bass as a student strapped for cash. Working different jobs to have some income to pay for school, car, living necessaties and my bass and amp.
Now I have my own business and have a fair amount of disposable income... without feeling elitist or saying that I am rich. I just can afford a little more now than I used to. And most of it is going to my favourite hobby.
But, money should not be wasted. I should learn to make wiser purchases.

I hope this can be used as advice for everyone.



Ray, I see from your profile that you have 3 nice basses. Traditional Fenders. Nice and useful collection.

Well, sorry I'm going to make you doubt again, traditional P and J basses have their historic vibe to it being 4-strings.
Maybe a 5- or 6-string modern bass would be a nice addition to your collection. Best of both worlds... each can have it's own use, depending what your uses are.
Maybe you are a person who can switch from 4 to 5-string forth and back, from fretted to fretless forth and back... or maybe you are like me and like to stick with what you know.
Just having a modern 4-string would be a nice addition to your collection. Would be a very different sounding instrument.

Sorry, I'm not making this easy.

I hope you can make up your mind and be happy with your next bass.
If you're going on the used market I think there won't be many 4-string Roscoes. Gard says the majority of production is 5-string.
I would not be afraid of a 5-string if I were you.

I'll be repeating myself again: think about it yourself, do you need that B-string, can you use it? Is it worth it to you?


Good luck.

How did you like my half a book? better than DS's?


edit: typos, so many typos
it's too late around here... i'm not going to fish them all out

[RocketMusic]

I'll chime in with a chapter! My short answer is that each string adds just 5 more notes. B:0 through B:4 aren't available anywhere else on the instrument, but B:5 (= E:0) on up are already available on other strings.

But there's more to the story. An extended range bass lets you play more notes in a given position (i.e. more notes are acessible without moving your fretting hand up/down the neck). If you look at 3-note-per-string scales, you can squeeze 12 notes out of a single position on a 4-string, 15 notes on a 5-string, and 18-notes on a 6 string. So the 6 string gives you 50% more note choices than a 4-string in the same position. There's some economy of motion to be gained there.

And indeed, as mentioned previously, there are tonal differences across strings. C:2 and G:7 are the same D, but they sound different. If you're listening while you play, you can use that to your advantage.

Then there are the physical differences. A 5-string neck with the same string spacing as a 4-string simply has to be wider. Wider generally feels less comfortable, so 5's and 6's tend to have tighter string spacing so that the neck can be less wide overall. Tighter string spacing can make some techniques (double thumbing is an obvious one) more difficult.

So there's no right answer. Each type of bass has it's place and it's own strengths and weaknesses. A lot of guys will specialize (like me, I'm pretty much a 5-string player), but there's not a really good reason to do that. I can play a 4 just as well, and I'm sure I could play a 6 if I just took the time to get accustomed to one. For me, I can only afford to own so many basses of the caliber that I like. If money were no object, I'm sure I'd have a 6... and maybe a 4...

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

.... until june 2008.

That's my TalkBass join date.

I know just what you mean Stefan. Growing up I was under the impression that a bass was a bass, and fretless and extended range were "specialty". That was until I joined TB. I heard the things that can be done with both, and owning both intrigues me.

But, money should not be wasted. I should learn to make wiser purchases.

That's why I'm asking everyones opinion.

Ray, I see from your profile that you have 3 nice basses. Traditional Fenders. Nice and useful collection.

Thanks

How did you like my half a book? better than DS's?


edit: typos, so many typos
it's too late around here... i'm not going to fish them all out

DS has an excuse for any of his typos, Irish Whiskey.

Shall I chalk yours up to Belgian beer?

Thanks Stefan

Originally Posted by RocketMusic

I'll chime in with a chapter! My short answer is that each string adds just 5 more notes. B:0 through B:4 aren't available anywhere else on the instrument, but B:5 (= E:0) on up are already available on other strings.

But there's more to the story. An extended range bass lets you play more notes in a given position (i.e. more notes are acessible without moving your fretting hand up/down the neck). If you look at 3-note-per-string scales, you can squeeze 12 notes out of a single position on a 4-string, 15 notes on a 5-string, and 18-notes on a 6 string. So the 6 string gives you 50% more note choices than a 4-string in the same position. There's some economy of motion to be gained there.

And indeed, as mentioned previously, there are tonal differences across strings. C:2 and G:7 are the same D, but they sound different. If you're listening while you play, you can use that to your advantage.

Then there are the physical differences. A 5-string neck with the same string spacing as a 4-string simply has to be wider. Wider generally feels less comfortable, so 5's and 6's tend to have tighter string spacing so that the neck can be less wide overall. Tighter string spacing can make some techniques (double thumbing is an obvious one) more difficult.

So there's no right answer. Each type of bass has it's place and it's own strengths and weaknesses. A lot of guys will specialize (like me, I'm pretty much a 5-string player), but there's not a really good reason to do that. I can play a 4 just as well, and I'm sure I could play a 6 if I just took the time to get accustomed to one. For me, I can only afford to own so many basses of the caliber that I like. If money were no object, I'm sure I'd have a 6... and maybe a 4...

Greg, I'd bet you majored in math didn't you. I'd like 18 more notes.

I've got fairly large hands so physically I don't believe I'd have a problem with either.

Tell me why you choose a 5 as your "base" bass? You must get a lot of use out of the fifth string?

God Bless, Ray

[Gard]

GOOD question, Ray!

(...very surprising, considering that you're a Cowpokes fan! )

Difficult for someone to answer for you, however.



You have to base your decision on what will eventually be the right choice for YOU.

I've gone back and forth between 6's and 5's (never really seriously played a 4 - I actually STARTED on 6, after migrating over from our skinny-stringed cousin in 1995), and find both to have advantages and disadvantages.

For most of "my" playing, i.e. the stuff that I do sitting around by myself, the 6 is the best choice, having that range in one position really allows a lot of freedom melodically and harmonically. Plus, as someone that started on 6, it just feels like "home" to me.

However, for most of my gigging playing, the C string is...well, I wanna use a phrase my father likes to use: Tits on a boar hog. Not very useful. If I were playing more jazzy/fusiony type gigs, it would be perfect, but most of what I've done the past few years has been classic rock stuff. A 5 is more than enough, and eventually there will be an additional pair of them in my "stable" (a pair of Century Standards, because they kick @$$, IMO! ). Over the course of a 3-4 hour gig, being an old fart like I am now, I think the comfort factor will come into play, and I won't miss the C string.

As for 4, it won't ever happen for me, I used to be famous for this phrase 'round these parts:

No B, no ME.

I just gotta have it, for two reasons.

1) Economy of motion, you have a 2 octave range in one position on a 5 string, and I'm LAZY.

2) There's nothing in the world like dropping that low B, C, C#/Db, D, or D#/Eb on a crowd. Nothing in the world. And the low notes on a Roscoe....well, there aren't many that are like it, frankly, and I am not just saying that because I work there - I worked at Bass Central for 5 years, and heard 'em ALL, there was only one bass that was in the same ballpark, and it had a 37" B string - it wasn't BETTER, just DIFFERENT, by the way.

Good luck in figuring it out for yourself, and if there's ever anything I can help with, just ask. I'll be happy to help, even if you are a Cowpatties fan.

[RocketMusic]

Originally Posted by LilRay

Greg, I'd bet you majored in math didn't you. I'd like 18 more notes.

Practically! Electrical Engineering was my game, which here at VA Tech puts you just 1-2 classes shy of a math minor... so I am uber-analytical, you pegged it.

Here's a fun exercise Anthony Wellington put to us at camp - how many notes are on your bass (including redunancies)? And how many unique notes are there (i.e. don't count E:5 and A:0 twice, they're the same note)?

Originally Posted by LilRay

Tell me why you choose a 5 as your "base" bass? You must get a lot of use out of the fifth string?

My reason for playing 5 is the same as Gard's. It's exhilarating to pummel a crowd with those extra low notes through a big PA system. And once you get beyond the sheer pleasure of doing that, you can start using it more selectively for changing the dynamics of a song. In a given song, I might not touch the B string for the first 2-3 verses, but then I'll lay into it for the last one and really bring some power to it.

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by Gard

GOOD question, Ray!

(...very surprising, considering that you're a Cowpokes fan! )

I get off a good one every now and then

I actually STARTED on 6, after migrating over from our skinny-stringed cousin in 1995), and find both to have advantages and disadvantages.

This is my quandry. Essentially I'd be restarting, for lack of a better term, having played fours exclusively.

For most of "my" playing, i.e. the stuff that I do sitting around by myself, the 6 is the best choice, having that range in one position really allows a lot of freedom melodically and harmonically. Plus, as someone that started on 6, it just feels like "home" to me.

However, for most of my gigging playing, the C string is...well, I wanna use a phrase my father likes to use: Tits on a boar hog. Not very useful. If I were playing more jazzy/fusiony type gigs, it would be perfect, but most of what I've done the past few years has been classic rock stuff. A 5 is more than enough, and eventually there will be an additional pair of them in my "stable" (a pair of Century Standards, because they kick @$$, IMO! ). Over the course of a 3-4 hour gig, being an old fart like I am now, I think the comfort factor will come into play, and I won't miss the C string.

This is interesting to know, assuming you were a primarily six guy. More or less the B is a must, the C not so much (gigging).

As for 4, it won't ever happen for me, I used to be famous for this phrase 'round these parts:

No B, no ME.

I just gotta have it, for two reasons.

1) Economy of motion, you have a 2 octave range in one position on a 5 string, and I'm LAZY.

You and I must be cut from the same LAZY cloth This'd be the reason to get an Extended Range for me, along with expanding my ear.

I'd also like to learn to read (music) but being illiterate helps me blend in down here in Georgia

2) There's nothing in the world like dropping that low B, C, C#/Db, D, or D#/Eb on a crowd. Nothing in the world. And the low notes on a Roscoe....well, there aren't many that are like it, frankly, and I am not just saying that because I work there - I worked at Bass Central for 5 years, and heard 'em ALL, there was only one bass that was in the same ballpark, and it had a 37" B string - it wasn't BETTER, just DIFFERENT, by the way.

Good luck in figuring it out for yourself, and if there's ever anything I can help with, just ask. I'll be happy to help, even if you are a Cowpatties fan.

Boy, You're a good BS'ing salesman.(Kidding).

I am proudly a Cowpatties fan and I'm off to watch them and the rest of the Foosball action.

God Bless, Ray

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by RocketMusic

Here's a fun exercise Anthony Wellington put to us at camp - how many notes are on your bass (including redunancies)? And how many unique notes are there (i.e. don't count E:5 and A:0 twice, they're the same note)?

On a 4/24, my guesses would be, the first answer is 100, and the second 40.

Of course, thinking about it, there are only 12 notes in our western scales.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by LilRay

This is interesting to know, assuming you were a primarily six guy. More or less the B is a must, the C not so much (gigging).

It depends on your role in the band really, but in general, the B would be more useful.

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by RocketMusic

Practically! Electrical Engineering was my game, which here at VA Tech puts you just 1-2 classes shy of a math minor... so I am uber-analytical, you pegged it.

Here's a fun exercise Anthony Wellington put to us at camp - how many notes are on your bass (including redunancies)? And how many unique notes are there (i.e. don't count E:5 and A:0 twice, they're the same note)?

There's more than one note on a bass?



Damn, I knew I wasn't doing something right.

My reason for playing 5 is the same as Gard's. It's exhilarating to pummel a crowd with those extra low notes through a big PA system. And once you get beyond the sheer pleasure of doing that, you can start using it more selectively for changing the dynamics of a song. In a given song, I might not touch the B string for the first 2-3 verses, but then I'll lay into it for the last one and really bring some power to it.

So the 5's make the bootys shake right?

Gards opinion is no fours, but is there ever a situation that you'd prefer a four over a five?

God Bless, Ray

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

On a 4/24, my guesses would be, the first answer is 100, and the second 40.

Of course, thinking about it, there are only 12 notes in our western scales.

I've got an infinite number of notes.

What's "western scales"?

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

I've got an infinite number of notes.

What's "western scales"?

Hahah, yeah, but be honest, most of them "notes" ain't on purpose!