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12-29-2009, 09:11 AM
|  | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | |  Roscoe Fretless preamp
I'm really considering dropping in a Bart 3-band pre in my new Roscoe fretless. It's currently got the Roscoe Audere but as best that I remember, the Bart 3-band just really hits the sweet spot for a Roscoe fretless.
Let me know what you guys have in your Roscoe fretless basses and what you think. Especially if you've had a chance to compare the Audere to the Bart and/or Aggie 3-band.
My gripe really isn't sound/tone as much as it is the input sensitivity at the amp. I have to really tweak the Eden (engage the input PAD and re-adjust the level) or TFunk (re-adjust Gain & Master volume) when I switch from my fretted Roscoe (Demeter) to the fretless. The Audere pre is sooooo much hotter. I'm thinking the Bart would give me the option of fine tuning the pre db boost level via the preamp trim pot.
Talk to me Roscoe brothers!  |
12-29-2009, 09:18 AM
|  | Drunk on power... and beer | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Co. Kerry, Ireland. | | | Mine has the Bart pre, and I'd think about swapping the pickups(to bardens, if it where possible, just to see, I'm happy with the Roscoe Barts) well before I'd dare go near the pre-amp.
I do know, mine left Roscoe shop originally with an Aguilar OBP-3 pre, but was returned by the previous owner to have the current Bart one installed.
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Last edited by Darkstrike : 12-29-2009 at 12:10 PM.
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12-29-2009, 10:35 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: behind a bass | | | I've never played the Aggie or the Audere preamps in Roscoes before. But, I am completely satisfied with the Bart/Bart combo in my Roscoe fretless (diamondwood board + flamed maple over Spanish cedar). It just seems to be the perfect fit for fretless tone that is in my head. |
12-29-2009, 12:03 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wake Forest, NC | | | I think the Roscoe/Bart pickups and the Bart preamp absolutely sound the best in a Roscoe fretless. Now, put some tape wound strings on it and you will make people cry. |
12-30-2009, 02:47 PM
|  | Cogito Ergo Idiot | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SF Bay Area, CA | | I've had both Bart/Bart and Bart/Aguilar setups recently. I can't speak to output levels, but in terms of sound... The Aguilar definitely seems more aggressive, particularly in the upper mids, but also in the lows. The term bandmates (and fellow Roscoeheads) have used in describing the sound of this bass is, "focus." It definitely barks, where my old bass growled.
Keep in mind I've never experienced an Audere pre, so as always, apply your "Jerry is an idiot" filter to anything you read.  |
12-30-2009, 03:01 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hampton Roads (Norfolk), VA. | | | FWIW: I've nothing but bart/bart in my Roscoes - the set-up has never left me *wanting* for anything. If you like the sound your getting but just want to pad the voltage a bit, perhaps a DI with a pad (e.g. Radial JDI) is what you want if your amp doesn't have an input pad....???
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P.Earth (Keeping the groove.... Grounded)
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." - Nietzsche |
12-30-2009, 03:32 PM
| | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | | Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetEarth  FWIW: I've nothing but bart/bart in my Roscoes - the set-up has never left me *wanting* for anything. If you like the sound your getting but just want to pad the voltage a bit, perhaps a DI with a pad (e.g. Radial JDI) is what you want if your amp doesn't have an input pad....??? | The Eden has an input pad but making any tweaks during songs can be a bit of a push (if I engage the Eden input pad I also have to adjust the amp volumes). We transition from song to song rather quickly and depending on song intro's, I rarely have time to do more than just change basses. I wonder if Audere could recommend a minor circuit change that I could incorporate (inside the bass control cavity) that would pad the level ever so slightly ......?  |
12-30-2009, 03:41 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hampton Roads (Norfolk), VA. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 a minor circuit change that I could incorporate (inside the bass control cavity) that would pad the level ever so slightly ......? | A nice feature of the barts - the output gain adjustment screw that is inset on the plate over the preamp cavity on the back of the bass..... I've never *studied* the wiring inside, but, I bet a micro potentiometer (e.g. from radio shack) could be added to the circuit to control the gain on the pre. Food-for-thought.
-PE
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P.Earth (Keeping the groove.... Grounded)
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." - Nietzsche |
01-01-2010, 07:45 AM
| | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | | 
Cool! David (from Audere) replied back with a mod that should correct the problem.
For those interested:
"The best place to take the output reduction is before the volume control.
You can reduce the effective max volume by inserting a resistor in-between the pre internal output and the volume max pin.
This will reduce the level but still drive the cable hard to reduce noise...
With the pot shaft pointed to the right and the legs pointed upward (like the pot is laying on a table).
The pre output is the pin closest to you.
If you add 100K ohms in series with the pot leg the output level will reduce by 6dB or 1/2 (which is probably enough)
But If you add 300K ohms the output is -12dB"
PE,
Sounds like I can use a trim pot design similar to the Bart preamp.
If I can locate a variable resistor (trim pot) of the right value (maybe variable from 50-350 ohms), then I could zero in on the right amount of output. I may have a trim pot in my spare parts. Maybe I'll get lucky and have one of the right value.
I'm definitely going to try this before I order a Bart preamp. |
01-02-2010, 02:51 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: St. Paul, MN | | Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreqman I've never played the Aggie or the Audere preamps in Roscoes before. But, I am completely satisfied with the Bart/Bart combo in my Roscoe fretless (diamondwood board + flamed maple over Spanish cedar). It just seems to be the perfect fit for fretless tone that is in my head. | +1
My fretless is spec'-ed the same as lowfreqman's and I'm not messing with it. It sounds too good. Hearing your sound clips, I wouldn't mess with yours either, but hey - it's your bass. I think the trim pot add-in would be an option worth a try to see if you can even things out without introducing any extra variables. Plus, it's cheaper than a new pre. I like to start with the cheap stuff and up the ante later.
Just my $.02 worth.
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01-06-2010, 10:25 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hampton Roads (Norfolk), VA. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 If I can locate a variable resistor (trim pot) of the right value | You can probably find what you need here: http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a...ometers/1.html
Make sure you let us know the results... 
-PE
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P.Earth (Keeping the groove.... Grounded)
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." - Nietzsche
Last edited by PlanetEarth : 01-06-2010 at 10:37 AM.
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03-14-2010, 05:00 AM
| | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | | Well just wonderful! 
I finally got around to trying the installation of the 100K ohm resistor to reduce the Audere output.
I couldn't really tell any significant difference so, since David (@ Audere) mentioned a 300K ohm resistor would cut -12 db, I tried a 220K ohm (for somewhere in between the -6 & -12 db cut in output).
Everything was going fine until I pushed down on the resistor to facilitate installing the tie strap to the wiring. When I pushed down the heat shrinked resistor, the pin BROKE off of the volume pot! 
I've got dozens of std. guitar/bass pot's but nothing in that value.
So now I'm waiting on Audere to send me a new volume pot and in the meantime I'm without my Roscoe fretless! 
I certainly hope that the volume pot arrives before the GTG next weekend.
Just a word of caution to others that have expressed a desire to do this. THE PINS ARE VERY FRAGILE ON THE AUDERE POTS!
Bummer! If anything can go wrong, sometimes it will! I'll update again after the new pot arrives and I get a chance to try the 220K ohm resistor.
Last edited by JOME77 : 03-15-2010 at 04:18 PM.
Reason: Omitted the "K" in the ohm values
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03-14-2010, 07:45 AM
| | Drunk on power... and beer | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Co. Kerry, Ireland. | | | Funny you bumped this back up, lately I've been thinking a lot on swapping the Bart pre in my fretless, back to the stock Aguilar, to see how it sounds.
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The winners are crying and the losers are dancing. |
03-14-2010, 08:24 AM
| | Registered User
Owner: LilRay's Leatherworks | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between my Roscoe and Leather | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 Well just wonderful!
I finally got around to trying the installation of the 100 ohm resistor to reduce the Audere output.
I couldn't really tell any significant difference so, since David (@ Audere) mentioned a 300 ohm resistor would cut -12 db, I tried a 220 ohm (for somewhere in between the -6 & -12 db cut in output).
Everything was going fine until I pushed down on the resistor to facilitate installing the tie strap to the wiring. When I pushed down the heat shrinked resistor, the pin BROKE off of the volume pot!
I've got dozens of std. guitar/bass pot's but nothing in that value.
So now I'm waiting on Audere to send me a new volume pot and in the meantime I'm without my Roscoe fretless!
I certainly hope that the volume pot arrives before the GTG next weekend.
Just a word of caution to others that have expressed a desire to do this. THE PINS ARE VERY FRAGILE ON THE AUDERE POTS!
Bummer! If anything can go wrong, sometimes it will! I'll update again after the new pot arrives and I get a chance to try the 220 ohm resistor. | Joe,
Our New Orleanian buddy might be able to hook ya up? In time for the GTG that is. I don't know where Audere is located but I 'sume Norf Carolina's closer.
Hope you get it finished man.
God Bless, Ray
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1 Peter 1:13 Quote: |
Originally Posted by RocketMusic Ray is correct! | |
03-14-2010, 09:12 AM
| | Registered User
General Manager, Roscoe Guitars | | Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC, USA | | I was going to suggest contacting Dave @ Audere, but you beat me to it (dunno how I missed this thread...sorry...  )...
...sorry about the trouble with the volume pot Joe, if you like, I can send one to you tomorrow, then you can just give me the one on the way from Audere on Saturday so I can replace it in our stock. Will get to you a bit quicker than the one on the way from Oregon, I'd guess.
FYI, my favorite fretless preamp right now remains the Audere, because of the ability to access two midrange frequencies at one time. I don't find myself using the Z-mode switching much, but it's nice to have it available.
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03-14-2010, 10:17 AM
| | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Gard I was going to suggest contacting Dave @ Audere, but you beat me to it (dunno how I missed this thread...sorry... )...
...sorry about the trouble with the volume pot Joe, if you like, I can send one to you tomorrow, then you can just give me the one on the way from Audere on Saturday so I can replace it in our stock. Will get to you a bit quicker than the one on the way from Oregon, I'd guess.
FYI, my favorite fretless preamp right now remains the Audere, because of the ability to access two midrange frequencies at one time. I don't find myself using the Z-mode switching much, but it's nice to have it available. | Gard,
Cool! If you've got one in stock, please send it to me.
Hopefully the one that I ordered from David will be here by Saturday and I'll just give it to you. That would be awesome. The Gecko sounded nice (like an old friend this morning) but the Roscoe fretless just flat out sings! Missed it for sure!
Thanks! |
03-14-2010, 12:15 PM
| | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstrike Funny you bumped this back up, lately I've been thinking a lot on swapping the Bart pre in my fretless, back to the stock Aguilar, to see how it sounds. | Bill,
I love the Bart pre in the Roscoe fretless basses. The mid's are just killing. I haven't head many folks talk about the Aggie in the Roscoe fretless.
Did your originally come with the Aggie 3-band?
If I change out the Audere in my fretless, it will be in favor of the Bart. I've yet to hear a Roscoe fretless with the Bart/Bart combo that I didn't love. |
03-14-2010, 12:25 PM
| | Drunk on power... and beer | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Co. Kerry, Ireland. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 Bill,
I love the Bart pre in the Roscoe fretless basses. The mid's are just killing. I haven't head many folks talk about the Aggie in the Roscoe fretless.
Did your originally come with the Aggie 3-band?
If I change out the Audere in my fretless, it will be in favor of the Bart. I've yet to hear a Roscoe fretless with the Bart/Bart combo that I didn't love. | I remember Jerry praising the Bart/Aggie setup for a fretless, before, but not much else than that.
And yeah, mine came with an Aggie, but, the previous owner had it swapped for the Bart one thats in it now. Probably a sign to leave well enough alone, heh.
As usual, its not that I'm unhappy, I am very pleased with the current setup. I'm just the kind of guy that has to mess with stuff, though.
Oh, and its good to hear that your Audere is getting sorted so fast, I can't imagine how hard it is to do without that beauty. 
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03-15-2010, 10:21 AM
| | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Darkstrike I remember Jerry praising the Bart/Aggie setup for a fretless, before, but not much else than that. | Oh ... I didn't realize that Jerry had a fretless with the Aggie installed. They are great sounding pre's in a fretted bass & if Jerry says that it sounds good in a fretless, that's good enough for me! Quote: |
Originally Posted by Darkstrike And yeah, mine came with an Aggie, but, the previous owner had it swapped for the Bart one thats in it now. Probably a sign to leave well enough alone, heh.
As usual, its not that I'm unhappy, I am very pleased with the current setup. I'm just the kind of guy that has to mess with stuff, though. | It probably would be cool to try but I would keep the Bart around for a while, even if you like the Aggie installed. Sometimes the honeymoon can end abruptly! Quote: |
Originally Posted by Darkstrike Oh, and its good to hear that your Audere is getting sorted so fast, I can't imagine how hard it is to do without that beauty. | Yeah, Gard and the Roscoe guys definitely take care of their customers! I spoke to him this morning and the new pot is on its way!
Just awesome customer service!!!  |
03-15-2010, 11:04 AM
| | Drunk on power... and beer | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Co. Kerry, Ireland. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 Oh ... I didn't realize that Jerry had a fretless with the Aggie installed. They are great sounding pre's in a fretted bass & if Jerry says that it sounds good in a fretless, that's good enough for me! | Yup, Jerry's usually dead on with this stuff, and most guys I know love the Aggie, so it seems natural that it's a good option... Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 It probably would be cool to try but I would keep the Bart around for a while, even if you like the Aggie installed. Sometimes the honeymoon can end abruptly! | Oh, if I did go for the Aggie, the furthest away the Bart one would go is my old 8 string(coursed) bass, so I'd always have the option to reverse it. Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 Yeah, Gard and the Roscoe guys definitely take care of their customers! I spoke to him this morning and the new pot is on its way!
Just awesome customer service!!! | Fantastic! And total agreement, top notch service.
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