Roscoe set-up and intonation

[ThePerfectBass]

No problem! I'd also recommend that you get hold of some feeler gauges and use them to figure out what kind of relief you have rather than making a guess... Unless you've set up dozens and dozens of instruments and do it every day, you can misdiagnose a simple setup issue very easily.

Peace, and good luck!

[improvpwnd]

Originally Posted by ThePerfectBass

No problem! I'd also recommend that you get hold of some feeler gauges and use them to figure out what kind of relief you have rather than making a guess... Unless you've set up dozens and dozens of instruments and do it every day, you can misdiagnose a simple setup issue very easily.

Peace, and good luck!

Right on! I have been setting up my own instruments since day one, 11 years ago, but have only begun to understand how to do it correctly (though I've never used measuring tools)!

I just got my Roscoe in AMAZING playing shape... nothing was wrong with the bass--it was my technique!
I realized my Stingray had no relief, extremely low action, but had barely any buzz (and here's the important part) depending on how hard I played! Every time I played the Roscoe, I was playing with much more force than I am used to because of the higher tension because of the 35" scale. For some reason I would dig in to the Roscoe and expect no buzz with a flat neck... the tension of the strings just make me play harder. When I relax and play with the same amount of force as I used to play with my Stringray, I get even less buzz with lower action BECAUSE of the higher tension.
So I have almost zero relief... the saddles could probably be even a little lower, but if I play with a light touch (like I am used to!) everything falls into place. Of course there is a bit of buzz when I play harder, but I LIKE it like that!

Should the saddles follow the radius of the neck (low B and E a bit lower than A) or should the low B be highest and high C be lowest in all your opinions?

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Should the saddles follow the radius of the neck (low B and E a bit lower than A) or should the low B be highest and high C be lowest in all your opinions?

I always try to set the string heights so that the strings follow the finger board radius. Sometimes you have to vary it a bit but as a general rule they should follow the FB radius. I use a feeler gage and target .06" from the bottom of all strings to the top of the 24th fret. I consider that low action. I set neck relief at approx. .015-.030 at the highest point. It varys depending on the quality/condition of the fret leveling.
Most folks (and I know that Keith believes this) also believe that the more of the bass saddle that contacts the bridge, the better the transfer for sustain. This typically requires shimming the neck.

[improvpwnd]

Originally Posted by JOME77

I set neck relief at approx. .015-.030 at the highest point.

Highest point when holding down 1st and 24th fret?

Originally Posted by JOME77

the more of the bass saddle that contacts the bridge, the better the transfer for sustain. This typically requires shimming the neck.

I am a bit confused here. The only way the saddle can contact the bridge more is if its dropped all the down so that the bottom of the saddle is touching the bridge right? How else would you make it contact the bridge more? Wouldn't shimming the neck allow for your saddles to be higher?

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Highest point when holding down 1st and 24th fret?


I am a bit confused here. The only way the saddle can contact the bridge more is if its dropped all the down so that the bottom of the saddle is touching the bridge right? How else would you make it contact the bridge more? Wouldn't shimming the neck allow for your saddles to be higher?

i thought the same, but maybe he means shimming the front of the pocket instead of the back?

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Highest point when holding down 1st and 24th fret??

Yes, with the bass in a playing position.

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

I am a bit confused here. The only way the saddle can contact the bridge more is if its dropped all the down so that the bottom of the saddle is touching the bridge right? How else would you make it contact the bridge more? Wouldn't shimming the neck allow for your saddles to be higher?

You are correct. The idea is to transfer as much sustain from the string, to the saddle, to the bridge and ultimately to the body.
Shimming could allow/cause the saddles to be higher. The trick is to shim the correct amount which allows the saddles to be lowed all the way.
Different techs have different opinions on this but it does make since when you consider the fact that the more contact surfaces that meet, the more area that exist for sustain to be transferred.


Hope that this is clearer!

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

i thought the same, but maybe he means shimming the front of the pocket instead of the back?

Hopefully my other reply cleared it up, but yes, sometimes shimming is required in the front of the neck pocket. Not very often though. If the strings are too close with the saddles all of the way down (without a shim), then a shim would be required in the front of the neck pocket.

[improvpwnd]

Originally Posted by JOME77

I use a feeler gage and target .06" from the bottom of all strings to the top of the 24th fret.

Thanks for all your help JOME!
Are you really getting your low B and E this low?

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Thanks for all your help JOME!
Are you really getting your low B and E this low?

For years I targeted .12 on the B and never really tried to go any lower. With all the more recent changes in technique (tapping) some players are asking for lower action so I started targeting .06. Certainly not all basses allow it but most Roscoe's and MTD's allow it but only if the player has a very light touch. I target .06 and raise it until I get minimal fret buzz.
My personal fretted basses are setup for .094-.12 at the B so I'm free to dig in when the adrenaline gets pumping.

[ThePerfectBass]

Following the FB radius is a valid strategy, but I prefer to taper the string height down just a bit when you go from the B to G. For instance, I usually try to get my B to about 6/64ths and the G will be at about 4-5/64ths.

I use 64ths as that's what my tool reads.

So just a slight taper towards the treble side. I can usually get the treble side a little lower without buzz, so why not?!

Peace!

[improvpwnd]

Originally Posted by ThePerfectBass

Following the FB radius is a valid strategy, but I prefer to taper the string height down just a bit when you go from the B to G. For instance, I usually try to get my B to about 6/64ths and the G will be at about 4-5/64ths.

I use 64ths as that's what my tool reads.

So just a slight taper towards the treble side. I can usually get the treble side a little lower without buzz, so why not?!

Peace!

Do you use these measurements with only to your Roscoes or with all your basses? Do the measurements change for basses of different scale lengths?

[ThePerfectBass]

I forgot to mention that I measure at the 12th fret... That's the distance from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string...

improvpwnd - To answer your question: While I own a music store full of wonderful instruments, my personal basses are BOTH ROSCOE! I have the #TPB001 Limited Edition 5 string LG3005 that we did a run of 10 of, and a custom LG3005 with the TPB logo (an early version of it...) inlaid below the 24th fret.

But if I had other basses that I played regularly, I would set them up as close to this as possible. In fact, that's the standard I use when I do a setup for my buddies here locally...

Some brands that are less consistent are harder to get into this kind of shape, but by in large, assuming that the bass is in good shape and has a functional truss rod, I believe you can get most basses to get close to this.

If you can get the B string somewhere in the 6-8/6ths range and the G string in the 4-6/64ths range with little or no buzz, I'd say that most average players will be very pleased with the setup. I don't like going lower without knowing that the player has a light touch. It's really hard to avoid some fret noise when you go with ultra-low action.

That being said, I've played some basses with incredibly low action with very little or no buzz. I'm probably just too lazy to try to get mine that low...

Peace!

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Do you use these measurements with only to your Roscoes or with all your basses? Do the measurements change for basses of different scale lengths?

improvpwnd,
It really comes down to a combination of the neck angle and just how well the fret's are leveled. The neck angle can be compensated via shims (assuming it's a bolt on) but a bass (or guitar) with a bad fret leveling job will have to be addressed in order to facilitate low action without fret buzz. I've heard a lot of buzz (not fret buzz! ) about the new Plek system which utilizes computer technology to level your frets. Average cost is around $200 but a lot of players say it's worth it. I guess it depends on how important it is to you to have an instrument with low action without fret buzz.

Check out the Plek web site for more info:

http://www.plek.com/en_US/home/

Also, here's a luthier in your area that has a Plek system:

Gary Brawer Guitar and Bass Repair
15 Lafayette Street
San Francisco, California 94103
voice: 415-621-3904
fax: 415-621-6904

Happy New Year!

[justBrian]

I recommend this thread for a STICKY. I refer to it time and again as I get more and more familiar with my Roscoe. The wealth of knowledge here is just fantastic. (And no, I'm trying to suck-up to anyone )

Cheers,
BD

[damon106]

I would agree... can we get this on a sticky pls ? invaluable to guys joining the "Roscoe Heads " ranks !

Originally Posted by justBrian

I recommend this thread for a STICKY. I refer to it time and again as I get more and more familiar with my Roscoe. The wealth of knowledge here is just fantastic. (And no, I'm trying to suck-up to anyone )

Cheers,
BD

[Gard]

Originally Posted by damon106

I would agree... can we get this on a sticky pls ? invaluable to guys joining the "Roscoe Heads " ranks !

Compliance.




(10 points to whoever can correctly identify the reference. )

[VroomVroom]

Mmkay...I'll take a wild guess which will show my age. Could we be talking about Sarah Jessica Parker's first movie?

BTW - I can't recommend Gary Brawer highly enough....if you can get a hold of him. Taint easy, I'm afraid, but I was blown away by the work he did on my old Modulus.

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by Gard

Compliance.




(10 points to whoever can correctly identify the reference. )

It sounds like an ISO 9001 term ..........I give up ........is it in a movie? Forum rules? The God Father?

[Gard]

Joe, it's a movie...

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Mmkay...I'll take a wild guess which will show my age. Could we be talking about Sarah Jessica Parker's first movie?

Close, gotta give the title for the points....

BTW - I can't recommend Gary Brawer highly enough....if you can get a hold of him. Taint easy, I'm afraid, but I was blown away by the work he did on my old Modulus.

Great, it's good to know of guys that do good work everywhere, so I can recommend them when someone from that area calls with a problem or question!

[VroomVroom]

I want those points! 'Flight of the Navigator'? (And, yes, I had to look it up. I remembered being just out of high school and thinking Ms. Parker was rather cute, but getting the synapses to fire beyond that...and a few lines...well, thank goodness for google.)