Roscoe set-up and intonation - Page 8

Darkstrike · #**141** 12-07-2010, 09:58 AM

I'd only touch the truss when my preferred neck relif has changed, and I check fairly often.

RocketMusic · #**142** 12-07-2010, 10:02 AM

Yeah, I'm with Jerry. I'm happy to adjust the truss rod anytime it needs it, regardless of string age.

However, what I DON'T recommend doing with old strings is setting the intonation. I always like to do that with a fresh set of strings. I'm not sure if this is true with basses, but I know for a fact on guitars that you often just can't get old strings to intonate. We do enough repairs here (and the strings usually come in fairly to extremely nasty) that we've seen that a lot. Danny tries, fails, and then comes and grabs a fresh set of strings off our string wall.

VroomVroom · #**143** 12-07-2010, 10:09 AM

Definitely. I recall reading Michael Tobias' approach to intonating....essentially, wait a day or so for the new strings to stretch, then go to work. I cut this short a bit, usually playing for 30-45 minutes or so on new strings. By, "new," I do mean different brand or gauge, though. While I still check (embrace the OCD, baby!) intonation with every string change, I've found that when using the same brand & gauge, intonation settings usually remain intact.

PlanetEarth · #**144** 12-07-2010, 10:12 AM

Cool, wasn't seeing why it would make a diff (aside from possibly what Jeri mentioned), but, I'll take comments from this peanut gallery any day ..

-PE

CrashClint · #**145** 12-07-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Definitely. I recall reading Michael Tobias' approach to intonating....essentially, wait a day or so for the new strings to stretch, then go to work. I cut this short a bit, usually playing for 30-45 minutes or so on new strings. By, "new," I do mean different brand or gauge, though. While I still check (embrace the OCD, baby!) intonation with every string change, I've found that when using the same brand & gauge, intonation settings usually remain intact.

Hey Jerry, have you been snooping in my notebook? Depending on the situation, I try to let the bass sit overnight, but I have played the bass like Jerry is saying. When I do setups around here I normally ask to keep the bass overnight as I will change the strings the first day and tune up and play a little. On day two I adjust the intonation and the truss rod as needed.

With my Roscoe basses, if I am going back with the same strings I may have to tweak the B string intonation ever so slightly, normally the other strings fall right into place.

JOME77 · #**146** 12-21-2010, 05:00 AM

I don't know if any of you Roscoeheads have had any issues with the cold weather and your HVAC system playing havoc with your Roscoe fingerboard but I recently had a major change in my 3006.
We had a real cold week last week and of course I ran the heat upstairs in my music room. I went up stairs to do some recording Thursday evening and to my surprise I could feel sharp edges on every single fret!

I've worked on many guitars/basses with this issue but always assumed that the owner left the instrument in extreme weather conditions and then subjected it to a heated room.
So much for that theory! My bass hadn't left the house that week. At any rate, I couldn't find my fret files and even though it might (maybe!) return to normal over time I figured to prevent it from happening again next winter I called a good luthier (Tom Dobson located just south of Atlanta). He fixed me up and things are back to normal (actually even better since I can't feel any fret ends now).
If you've experienced this and want to address it yourself you can order this from Stewmac:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...t=3&xsr=102658

As a side note, you may want to apply a bit of wax or tung oil to the side of the Finger board (especially if it's maple) just to help reseal the wood.

Also, since Tom took the neck off during the procedure I figured now would be a good time to add a single business card shim to the neck pocket to see if the bass could take a super low setup (1/16" at the 24th fret). When I got home I added the shim (the part of one of my business cards with my name; you never know, it might help ID the bass one day!) and the action is just unreal now! Plays like butter!!!

CrashClint · #**147** 12-21-2010, 08:21 AM

Hey Joe,

Was your Roscoe in a case or hanging on a hanger in your room? I have a tendency to keep mine on hangers so I gave mine a going over and everything feels good but I am thinking of putting them back in cases.

I don't like the business card shim, just doesn't seem right to do this. Luckily for me I am close to Roscoe and have had them angle my neck pocket to perfection because like you, I like my action set way low. A couple bass players I know complain that I have my action too low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOME77

I don't know if any of you Roscoeheads have had any issues with the cold weather and your HVAC system playing havoc with your Roscoe fingerboard but I recently had a major change in my 3006.
We had a real cold week last week and of course I ran the heat upstairs in my music room. I went up stairs to do some recording Thursday evening and to my surprise I could feel sharp edges on every single fret!

I've worked on many guitars/basses with this issue but always assumed that the owner left the instrument in extreme weather conditions and then subjected it to a heated room.
So much for that theory! My bass hadn't left the house that week. At any rate, I couldn't find my fret files and even though it might (maybe!) return to normal over time I figured to prevent it from happening again next winter I called a good luthier (Tom Dobson located just south of Atlanta). He fixed me up and things are back to normal (actually even better since I can't feel any fret ends now).
If you've experienced this and want to address it yourself you can order this from Stewmac:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...t=3&xsr=102658

As a side note, you may want to apply a bit of wax or tung oil to the side of the Finger board (especially if it's maple) just to help reseal the wood.

Also, since Tom took the neck off during the procedure I figured now would be a good time to add a single business card shim to the neck pocket to see if the bass could take a super low setup (1/16" at the 24th fret). When I got home I added the shim (the part of one of my business cards with my name; you never know, it might help ID the bass one day!) and the action is just unreal now! Plays like butter!!!

JOME77 · #**148** 12-21-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashClint

Hey Joe,

Was your Roscoe in a case or hanging on a hanger in your room? I have a tendency to keep mine on hangers so I gave mine a going over and everything feels good but I am thinking of putting them back in cases.

I don't like the business card shim, just doesn't seem right to do this. Luckily for me I am close to Roscoe and have had them angle my neck pocket to perfection because like you, I like my action set way low. A couple bass players I know complain that I have my action too low.

Clint,
it was in the Mono gig bag. I've never had a problem with using a shim to fine tune a setup. Paper just wood in a slightly modified format and it sure plays nicely.

bobunit · #**149** 01-18-2011, 10:50 AM

I need to adjust the truss rod (lovely weather). I know the hex key is supposed to be 9/64th", but what should the length of the key be. Thanks!

Gard · #**150** 01-18-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobunit

I need to adjust the truss rod (lovely weather). I know the hex key is supposed to be 9/64th", but what should the length of the key be. Thanks!

Depending on when the bass was made, the trussrod may sit a bit "back" in the neck, and require a shorter leg to fit than a standard one. There is no specific link, you just have to grind it back a bit, check it, and repeat until it seats in the nut securely - DO NOT try to "force" a trussrod to turn if the allen key isn't seated securely, the nut is made of soft metal and will "round out" before damaging the rod itself.

If you have access to a grinding wheel, it's pretty simple to do the job.

bobunit · #**151** 01-18-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

Depending on when the bass was made, the trussrod may sit a bit "back" in the neck, and require a shorter leg to fit than a standard one. There is no specific link, you just have to grind it back a bit, check it, and repeat until it seats in the nut securely - DO NOT try to "force" a trussrod to turn if the allen key isn't seated securely, the nut is made of soft metal and will "round out" before damaging the rod itself.

If you have access to a grinding wheel, it's pretty simple to do the job.

Gard,
Thanks. I was just trying to get a general idea. I promise I won't force it. My dad taught me that years ago (machinist/mechanic

). I actually mic'ed my key to find it is a few thousandths smaller than 9/64th. I will be searching for one that fits.

francoprof · #**152** 02-26-2011, 04:31 PM

Hi all,

I've got the chance to acquire a «used» fretless SKB3006. It has a black diamondwood fretboard. Thing is, I'm perfectly happy with my fretless BNF6 FBass and so I was contemplating fretting the SKB3006 to get a fretted 6 stringer. Is this sacrilegious ? How does diamondwood fretboard compare to a maple board ? Any help/advice would be appreciated !

RocketMusic · #**153** 02-26-2011, 06:08 PM

Diamondwood is apparently a beeoch to fret, Roscoe won't even do it.

Darkstrike · #**154** 02-26-2011, 06:59 PM

Dosen't it need a wider fretslot than usual?

JOME77 · #**155** 02-27-2011, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

Dosen't it need a wider fretslot than usual?

Yeah Bill. That's why I was told that Roscoe won't fret the diamondwood boards. The diamondwood doesn't expand like wood.
Zon does it with comparable finger boards so it can be done.

Gard · #**156** 02-27-2011, 08:06 AM

Yup, we don't fret diamondwood, although it certainly can be done.

Actually, although diamondwood is very hard, it is not too hard to fret, we're just not setup to do it correctly, and the very minimal number of requests to do so on new orders (in 6 years of working there, 2 people have asked - that translates to 1 in 1200) do not justify the investment to set up for this.

To fret diamondwood, which as Joe has pointed out is very hard and does not expand and retract like wood (when you press a fret into a wood fingerboard, there are tangs (see bottom of post for diagram) that press the wood out of the way, then the wood re-expands behind them to hold the fret - this won't work with diamondwood because of the epoxy resin) you need to cut the kerf (the slot) for the frets wider to accommodate the frets, then glue them in. Our method of slotting a fingerboard involves using a gang saw, so to do this we would need to buy a new set of 25 fret saws and an entirely new set of spacers for our gang saw to accommodate this. For the number of requests, we can't justify the investment in a whole set of wider saw blades (the present set is .023", to work with diamondwood, we'd need at least .025") to make the kerf correct for diamondwood, and a new set of spacers to make the scale correct - not to mention TWO sets of spacers, for both 34"and 35" scale lengths.

We could slot the fingerboard with the set we have now, then widen the fret slot by hand, but then we begin to face issues of intonation, as the slot could "wander", and then you'd end up with frets in the wrong location.

Finally, to address the issue of slotting and fretting an existing neck - we can't do this. Our slotting jig is set up to work with a neck that is cut to shape and radiused, but still in what we call "the square" - in other words, it looks like our neck when you look at it from the front, but from the side it's still "square", or flat from heel to headstock. We then vacuum fix the neck onto a jig and run it through the gang saw to slot all 24 frets and the nut at the same time. Our jig will not accommodate a neck that has been shaped because of this.

So, francoprof, sadly, we could not help you with your request for those two reasons - however, most good repairmen are able to do this, so you may want to ask around and see if there is someone locally that can address your request.

francoprof · #**157** 02-27-2011, 06:23 PM

Fabulous ! Your response was more than I hoped for. Thanks a million

DGbass70 · #**158** 02-28-2011, 12:52 PM

Alright....i think i got the trussrod deal but let me just make sure.
My bass looks like strings are high from the middle to high note frets....or another description would be..pulling the headstock towards the bridge direction.
So i need to tighten a little bit right?
Thanks in advance

JOME77 · #**159** 02-28-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGbass70

Alright....i think i got the trussrod deal but let me just make sure.
My bass looks like strings are high from the middle to high note frets....or another description would be..pulling the headstock towards the bridge direction.
So i need to tighten a little bit right?
Thanks in advance

Right. Loosen the strings slightly and tighten approx. a 1/4 turn, tune back to pitch and check out the relief. Repeat until your relief is where you want it.
Nominal relief would be around .015 but that can vary based on whether high or low action is preferred (my preferred method of checking relief is with bass in a playing position, fret the E or B string at the 1st fret and the last fret and measure the greatest distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret).

DGbass70 · #**160** 02-28-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOME77

Right. Loosen the strings slightly and tighten approx. a 1/4 turn, tune back to pitch and check out the relief. Repeat until your relief is where you want it.
Nominal relief would be around .015 but that can vary based on whether high or low action is preferred (my preferred method of checking relief is with bass in a playing position, fret the E or B string at the 1st fret and the last fret and measure the greatest distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret).

Thx. i'll work on it.